Turning Ideas into Innovations

Podcast Transcript

Carol Pehotsky (00:05):

Sometimes as nurses when we hear the word innovation, or innovators, we think grandiose or a product to have in hand. But in any given nurse's day, there's always some problem to solve, some workaround that we come up with. I'm joined today by Karen Schaedlich to help us learn how to take that idea and make it into an innovation. Hi, and welcome to Nurse Essentials, a Cleveland Clinic podcast where we discuss all things nursing. From patient care, to advancing your career, to navigating tough on-the-job issues. We're so glad you're here. I'm your host, Carol Pehotsky, associate chief nursing officer of surgical services nursing.

(00:47):

Welcome back everyone. The American Nurses Association has said, "Every nurse as an agent of change And an innovator." And I gotta say, in my 20 plus years of nursing, I don't know that I really thought of myself as an innovator necessarily. There were times in my career where someone would come up with an idea and I'd get a lot of energy iterating with them, just sort of, "Okay well where can we take that to?" But I wasn't necessarily what I would envision as the ideas person. Fast-forward to doing my doctorate and of course when you do doctoral projects, you need to come up with a theory that further supports the project. And I found my way to Rogers' Diffusion of Innovation theory. And he really talked about with any innovation, you've got that bell curve, you've got your innovators that- that, sort of that -2 standard deviations, (laughs)  and then the early adopters, followed by the rest.

(01:34):

And I've always sort of associated with that early adopter group. But I'm doing by someone today who might argue with me and really talk about how truly, as the ANA said, every nurse is an innovator. I'm thrilled to be joined today by Karen Schaedlich. Karen is an amazing nurse and our innovation coordinator at Cleveland clinic. Karen, welcome. Thank you for joining me today.

Karen Schaedlich (01:52):

Well, thank you for having me.

Carol Pehotsky (01:54):

So I got to know, tell us about your nursing journey, and what led you-

Karen Schaedlich (01:54):

(laughs)

Carol Pehotsky (01:58):

... to innovations in your role today?

Karen Schaedlich (02:00):

Yes. Starting as a nurse I would never have expected-

Carol Pehotsky (02:03):

(laughs) Similar, yeah?

Karen Schaedlich (02:04):

Yes. But That's what I love about nursing.

Carol Pehotsky (02:05):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (02:05):

Truly there's so many opportunities. So, I have kind of as a nurse been born and raised here. I started as a nursing assistant during nursing school.

Carol Pehotsky (02:06):

Oh great. All right.

Karen Schaedlich (02:14):

In the surgery center. And then I took a hard right when I graduated-

Carol Pehotsky (02:19):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (02:19):

... and went into oncology.

Carol Pehotsky (02:21):

Oh wow.

Karen Schaedlich (02:21):

So, I did in-patient bone marrow transplant, outpatient fusion.

Carol Pehotsky (02:25):

Hm. Wow.

Karen Schaedlich (02:25):

I did clinical education and then-

Carol Pehotsky (02:26):

Hm.

Karen Schaedlich (02:28):

... I was a nurse manager. So-

Carol Pehotsky (02:30):

Oh, what kinda un- unit were you a manager of?

Karen Schaedlich (02:32):

Hillcrest Cancer Center.

Carol Pehotsky (02:33):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (02:33):

Loved it.

Carol Pehotsky (02:34):

Wow, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (02:34):

Yeah, no, it was great, but a recognized I needed to take a step back from my family at that time.

Carol Pehotsky (02:39):

Hm, sure.

Karen Schaedlich (02:40):

Uh, we just had a lot of like physical health things that you know, you just need to-

Carol Pehotsky (02:42):

Yeah. Being a nurse manager is not easy work. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (02:45):

No, no. And so, when I was looking to move forward, one of the last things we did was, we were involved with clinical improvement.

Carol Pehotsky (02:54):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (02:55):

I loved just the empowerment that I saw my nurses possess and-

Carol Pehotsky (02:59):

Hm. Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (02:59):

... they were excited. And I really wanted something where I could encourage nurses.

Carol Pehotsky (02:59):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (03:03):

And so when I saw this position-

Carol Pehotsky (03:03):

Mm-hmm, hm.

Karen Schaedlich (03:06):

... I was not quite sure.

Carol Pehotsky (03:06):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (03:09):

I heard the word innovation-

Carol Pehotsky (03:09):

Sure yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (03:10):

... so many times. So it really piqued my interest.

Carol Pehotsky (03:12):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (03:12):

But I knew that, you know, it was an empowering probably position-

Carol Pehotsky (03:18):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (03:18):

... that, you know, piqued my interest. And I wanted to work for Nancy Albert, so.

Carol Pehotsky (03:21):

Wow, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (03:22):

That led-

Carol Pehotsky (03:23):

She's amazing. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (03:24):

She is.

Carol Pehotsky (03:24):

She's been on the show twice. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (03:24):

Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky (03:24):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (03:26):

So- so, that's what led me here.

Carol Pehotsky (03:27):

All right.

Karen Schaedlich (03:28):

And even six years later, I feel like I'm still learning, still growing.

Carol Pehotsky (03:29):

Oh, that's fantastic.

Karen Schaedlich (03:32):

It still has me kinda, you know, wanting more and-

Carol Pehotsky (03:33):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (03:35):

... there's just so many opportunities even within innovation, so it's been a neat journey.

Carol Pehotsky (03:39):

Fantastic. Well, and so, like we've both said, you know, nurses might be innovators but we don't always see ourselves that way. So to get us started, how do you define innovation?

Karen Schaedlich (03:50):

While in simple, it's creating something new. We call that novel.

Carol Pehotsky (03:51):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (03:54):

And it can be a whole number of things. It can be something simple an idea-

Carol Pehotsky (03:58):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (03:59):

... a method, a service, a product. You can determine that through research, maybe you had to develop your own tool or algorithm.

Carol Pehotsky (04:06):

Hm.

Karen Schaedlich (04:07):

There really is a wide breadth of what innovation can be.

Carol Pehotsky (04:10):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (04:10):

But I would even take it further, bringing these ideas into reality.

Carol Pehotsky (04:14):

Sure. That's probably the shortcoming of my thinking too and probably others as well is, it's so easy to go innovation and think that there's a physical thing that comes out of that.

Karen Schaedlich (04:15):

It is.

Carol Pehotsky (04:23):

Yeah. But so any idea-

Karen Schaedlich (04:23):

Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky (04:25):

... can be innovation?

Karen Schaedlich (04:26):

Yeah, and so what my job is, I see not only ideas that can be externally marketed-

Carol Pehotsky (04:32):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (04:32):

... but also internal improvements. So it's-

Carol Pehotsky (04:34):

Oh sure.

Karen Schaedlich (04:35):

You know, again, anything that's new, novel, that adds value, that's unique.

Carol Pehotsky (04:39):

Hm.

Karen Schaedlich (04:39):

Those are the two really good key characteristics that you need.

Carol Pehotsky (04:43):

And there's lots of things that bedside nurses can do that brings value.

Karen Schaedlich (04:46):

Yes.

Carol Pehotsky (04:46):

All right.

Karen Schaedlich (04:47):

Absolutely.

Carol Pehotsky (04:47):

Okay. So lots happening in the world of healthcare and innovation, that I imagine. What do you think makes nurses uniquely qualified to innovate or iterate on innovations in health care?

Karen Schaedlich (05:00):

Mm-hmm. I think of is kind of like the hub with the patient.

Carol Pehotsky (05:03):

Okay. Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (05:03):

And so, we're the ones that are spending the most time with the patients generally, and we see lots of people coming in and out, whether that is the families, you know, the other specialties, but we really have the unique opportunity To hear and see what the patients want. What's working for them, what may be is not working for them and their families-

Carol Pehotsky (05:21):

Hm, mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (05:22):

... and coworkers. And so, I think that uniqueness helps us be able to understand what could really work well-

Carol Pehotsky (05:28):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (05:29):

... in the healthcare environment.

Carol Pehotsky (05:31):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (05:31):

We're the largest sector in healthcare.

Carol Pehotsky (05:33):

Yeah. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (05:33):

So-

Carol Pehotsky (05:34):

Yep.

Karen Schaedlich (05:34):

You know, we should be at the table, helping innovate those products that we're going to be using.

Carol Pehotsky (05:40):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (05:40):

We need to have our voices heard. That's only going to help us make better products, where nurses are going to be more passionate to use them, be those early adopters, when they can see that this really has been vetted by people who understand-

Carol Pehotsky (05:53):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (05:53):

... what we're going through.

Carol Pehotsky (05:53):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (05:54):

And then, we're natural problem solvers, they say, on average.

Carol Pehotsky (05:57):

(laughs) For better or worse.

Karen Schaedlich (05:59):

Right? We're MacGuyvers.

Carol Pehotsky (05:59):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (06:00):

And so, they say on average we do about four workarounds per shift.

Carol Pehotsky (06:05):

No.

Karen Schaedlich (06:05):

Yes.

Carol Pehotsky (06:06):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (06:06):

I know, right? So-

Carol Pehotsky (06:08):

Well, there you go. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (06:09):

So, yeah. So, what I say is, I'm not so much, you know, creating new innovators-

Carol Pehotsky (06:09):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (06:13):

... I'm just helping nurses recognize that within themselves, and taking time to stop, really determining how they can move forward, and then cultivating those ideas and helping them with next steps.

Carol Pehotsky (06:25):

Sure. Why is there a workaround? And is it something that actually could be a different way of doing things?

Karen Schaedlich (06:30):

Right, exactly. And sometimes, you know, what you think is the workaround is because, you know, when you peel back the onion-

Carol Pehotsky (06:30):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (06:36):

... there is a totally different problem-

Carol Pehotsky (06:38):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (06:38):

... that we need to solve.

Carol Pehotsky (06:39):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (06:39):

So, that's an important part of it, is really understanding the problem, and the crux to the issue-

Carol Pehotsky (06:44):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (06:44):

... where we can, you know, we don't want to solve it with a band-aid, we wanna solve it for good, so.

Carol Pehotsky (06:48):

I love it, yes. So, you know, thinking about, it can be something that isn't necessarily terribly complex, but something that works-

Karen Schaedlich (06:56):

Mm-hmm.

Carol Pehotsky (06:56):

... can you walk us through sort of that fuzzy idea to implementation? What are some of the steps a nurse would have to take, to really take this, "I have this idea about- "

Karen Schaedlich (06:56):

Mm-hmm.

Carol Pehotsky (07:06):

... and make it into reality?

Karen Schaedlich (07:08):

Well, I think there's some early steps that can be key.

Carol Pehotsky (07:11):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (07:11):

First is understanding and taking time to understand what you're trying to solve, understanding that problem-

Carol Pehotsky (07:11):

Mm-hmm, sure.

Karen Schaedlich (07:16):

... that we talked about. And then kinda conceptualizing what you want it to look like, what it features and whatnot. And then, one thing I encourage nurses to do, and they don't always want to, is go online to see if it's already out there.

Carol Pehotsky (07:27):

(laughs) "Did somebody beat me to it?" (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (07:28):

Yes, yeah. We don't wanna reinvent the wheel. I've seen nurses get so excited over ideas-

Carol Pehotsky (07:29):

Hm, sure.

Karen Schaedlich (07:33):

... and I'm Googling, I'm like, "It's there already."

Carol Pehotsky (07:36):

Yeah. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (07:37):

Um, and so what I say is that that can be a win too.

Carol Pehotsky (07:39):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (07:39):

Bringing a product to Cleveland Clinic-

Carol Pehotsky (07:41):

Absolutely.

Karen Schaedlich (07:41):

... that maybe we haven't, you know, seen or maybe we did in pass iterations and now it's been much improved. And so, that is a win too.

Carol Pehotsky (07:49):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (07:49):

So, knowing what's on the market is important, but also being able to distinguish your idea-

Carol Pehotsky (07:50):

Hm.

Karen Schaedlich (07:54):

... and how it's unique and different and adds value-

Carol Pehotsky (07:54):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (07:56):

... to what's already out there-

Carol Pehotsky (07:58):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (07:58):

... is important, because you're gonna have to say, "This is different from this product."

Carol Pehotsky (07:58):

Right.

Karen Schaedlich (08:02):

"For these reasons." This is is why hospitals would say this is is the product we want, not the product that we're using currently.

Carol Pehotsky (08:09):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (08:09):

So, those are the initial steps that I would say, and then once you understand what's online, then you can really kinda deep dive, conceptualize.

Carol Pehotsky (08:15):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (08:16):

We need, you know, if it, you're baking a cake-

Carol Pehotsky (08:18):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (08:19):

... we just don't need the ingredients, we need you to be kind of starting to mix-

Carol Pehotsky (08:22):

Well, sure, yeah. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (08:23):

So ... Because we need that vision.

Carol Pehotsky (08:23):

Hm, mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (08:25):

If it, when, before you share it, we at the Cleveland Clinic have the Cleveland Clinic Innovations Team, and they need to understand that vision-

Carol Pehotsky (08:32):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (08:32):

... um, that they can work with it, that it's your conceptualized idea. That you brought the end product of what you'd like, but you actually brought how to get there-

Carol Pehotsky (08:40):

Hm.

Karen Schaedlich (08:40):

... as well. So, I work with nurses to conceptualize that. That can sometimes be hard, and take some time.

Carol Pehotsky (08:45):

Yeah. Yeah. Lots of imagination.

Karen Schaedlich (08:47):

There, it is.

Carol Pehotsky (08:47):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (08:48):

Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky (08:48):

So, it becomes frankly a creative outlet almost.

Karen Schaedlich (08:51):

It is.

Carol Pehotsky (08:51):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (08:52):

It's really fun. Yeah, I mean, we can get hands on, creating a prototype-

Carol Pehotsky (08:56):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (08:56):

... and so, at my office I have pipe cleaners, some molding clay and-

Carol Pehotsky (09:00):

(laughs) Cool.

Karen Schaedlich (09:00):

It really is. Construction paper, yeah. So, some people-

Carol Pehotsky (09:00):

(laughs) I love it.

Karen Schaedlich (09:03):

Yeah. And it's amazing. You know, they say if a picture's worth a thousand words-

Carol Pehotsky (09:07):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (09:07):

... in your field, a prototype's worth a thousand pictures. So, if it's appropriate-

Carol Pehotsky (09:12):

Ah, okay.

Karen Schaedlich (09:12):

... a prototype's really good, even if it's basic.

Carol Pehotsky (09:12):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (09:14):

So, that's important, but in drawings too.

Carol Pehotsky (09:15):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (09:16):

And for some nurses, when they find ut about innovations, it's really fun to see their eyes light up, because it's almost like that outlet that they needed-

Carol Pehotsky (09:24):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (09:25):

... that they didn't realize that there was an opportunity for.

Carol Pehotsky (09:28):

Wow.

Karen Schaedlich (09:28):

And when they've realized that, yes, you want my ideas-

Carol Pehotsky (09:28):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (09:31):

... and I'm free to give them, there's no failure in these thoughts, it's just, you know, I can bring these out there, they really get excited. And so, some people come to me with, like, 10, 12 ideas that they've-

Carol Pehotsky (09:42):

Oh, wow. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (09:43):

... had for years. Yes.

Carol Pehotsky (09:44):

"Finally I've met you. Bah."

Karen Schaedlich (09:45):

And so ... Truly, yes. Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky (09:46):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (09:47):

One person, she had a basic prototype in her nightstand for the last eight years.

Carol Pehotsky (09:51):

Oh.

Karen Schaedlich (09:52):

She didn't know where to take it to.

Carol Pehotsky (09:53):

What to do with it? Oh, that's so fantastic.

Karen Schaedlich (09:55):

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, for some people it really is just an engaging, encouraging, empowering, um, opportunity for them.

Carol Pehotsky (10:03):

For sure. So, we have listeners, you know, from the whole spectrum of, "I'm a nursing student," to, "I'm mid to late career." So, hopefully someone out there is listening, saying, "Well, you know, I have this idea."

Karen Schaedlich (10:15):

Mm-hmm.

Carol Pehotsky (10:16):

And they don't work at Cleveland Clinic.

Karen Schaedlich (10:18):

Mm-hmm.

Carol Pehotsky (10:18):

So, what advice would you give somebody, you know, we're very fortunate to have the resources we do here. Somebody who maybe doesn't know if their hospital has resources or it doesn't. What would, what advice would you give them?

Karen Schaedlich (10:29):

Yeah, I would say, get to know what is available at your hospital system.

Carol Pehotsky (10:33):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (10:33):

Intellectual property policies-

Carol Pehotsky (10:36):

Oh, sure. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (10:36):

... would be a good one for-

Carol Pehotsky (10:36):

Yeah. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (10:38):

... for, uh, yeah, hospitals. And if they don't have the resources, they may have contacts to help.

Carol Pehotsky (10:38):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (10:43):

If there is an idea, I've worked with nurses that have talked about how they've been helped externally through their hospital, but it's still connected. And then ANA is doing great work with innovation. They've really-

Carol Pehotsky (10:53):

Hm. Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (10:53):

... been focusing on that. Johnson & Johnson.

Carol Pehotsky (10:56):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (10:56):

So, going online, going to LinkedIn, you'll find those-

Carol Pehotsky (10:59):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (11:00):

... people who really are invested, and really are bringing forth nursing innovations.

Carol Pehotsky (11:05):

Excellent. So, there's a place to go with your idea. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (11:08):

There is. It's growing. And I will say, when I started this position-

Carol Pehotsky (11:11):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (11:11):

... we didn't know if anyone else has a similar position in the nation.

Carol Pehotsky (11:12):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (11:15):

So, it's pretty exciting to be-

Carol Pehotsky (11:16):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (11:17):

... part of it. And since then, I have fund four other innovation coordinators in the nation.

Carol Pehotsky (11:17):

All right.

Karen Schaedlich (11:22):

So, we meet quarterly. Just-

Carol Pehotsky (11:22):

Oh, really?

Karen Schaedlich (11:25):

Yeah, just to talk.

Carol Pehotsky (11:25):

Oh, that's so cool.

Karen Schaedlich (11:25):

It's a unique a- you know, aspect and-

Carol Pehotsky (11:27):

Very.

Karen Schaedlich (11:28):

... perspective we can share. You know, not getting too in the details.

Carol Pehotsky (11:32):

Well, yeah. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (11:32):

But, you know, there's just, you know, some things that we can, you know, all collaborate and understand each other-

Carol Pehotsky (11:37):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (11:38):

... on a different level, 'cause we're not innovating our ideas-

Carol Pehotsky (11:40):

Right.

Karen Schaedlich (11:40):

... we're helping others innovate their ideas. So, it's definitely growing, but-

Carol Pehotsky (11:44):

Yeah. Even your roles in innovation, how about that?

Karen Schaedlich (11:47):

Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky (11:47):

(laughs) So, you've highlighted that there is some sensitivity. Uh, you know, something gets going, and, you know, I'm real excited about an idea, but I probably shouldn't share it with everybody who's willing to listen. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (11:59):

Right.

Carol Pehotsky (12:00):

So, what advice would you give? I'm- I'm super excited and I wanna bounce my ideas off people, but there's that risk that somebody takes and runs with it. So, what advice would you give somebody like that?

Karen Schaedlich (12:09):

Yeah. So, I would say, stay within your hospital system, first off.

Carol Pehotsky (12:14):

Okay, okay.

Karen Schaedlich (12:14):

Um, it is important to ask people if they think that the problem that you've identified is something that they identified too. So-

Carol Pehotsky (12:22):

Make sure it's a real problem, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (12:22):

You never, you know, uh, it's that fine line between holding it close-

Carol Pehotsky (12:26):

(laughs) Yes.

Karen Schaedlich (12:28):

... and then als sharing. It's that fine line between collaborating with people, because you do want-

Carol Pehotsky (12:32):

Hm.

Karen Schaedlich (12:32):

... you know, different-

Carol Pehotsky (12:33):

Sure, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (12:33):

... backgrounds and expertise can really help an idea grow, but you also don't wanna freely share.

Carol Pehotsky (12:40):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (12:40):

Um, vendors within the hospital system are not hospital employees, so.

Carol Pehotsky (12:44):

They are not, yes.

Karen Schaedlich (12:45):

That's what-

Carol Pehotsky (12:45):

Everybody rewind and hit Play on that statement again. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (12:45):

(laughs)

Carol Pehotsky (12:48):

[inaudible 00:12:48].

Karen Schaedlich (12:49):

Talk to your manager.

Carol Pehotsky (12:49):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (12:50):

Or reach out to your innovation coordinator team-

Carol Pehotsky (12:53):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (12:53):

... or myself, if you're at the Cleveland Clinic, and you can ask and if you're not sure, I've encouraged some people to-

Carol Pehotsky (12:53):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (12:59):

... talk with, you know, fellow caregivers and say, "It's okay."

Carol Pehotsky (13:02):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (13:02):

And then they come back and they're like, "You're right, that was so helpful and now I've thought of- "

Carol Pehotsky (13:07):

Hm. Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (13:07):

" ... these other, you know, aspects to my innovation."

Carol Pehotsky (13:09):

Yes. And we know that some vendors will put on think tanks where they will ask pe- people to participate. That obviously is different than, yeah, turning to your local friendly rep on X, Y and Z, and saying, "What do you think?" It, you know, hopefully, you'd hope that vendor would say, "Before we go any further, we need tot alk about relationships and boundaries." But yeah, it gets messy. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (13:30):

Yeah, yeah. And at the clinic we have, Cleveland Clinic Innovations does a good job of connecting us with the external-

Carol Pehotsky (13:36):

Nice.

Karen Schaedlich (13:36):

... uh, marketplace in a way that we aren't disclosing anything we shouldn't-

Carol Pehotsky (13:40):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (13:40):

... and vice versa.

Carol Pehotsky (13:42):

Nice. And probably a lot of organizations, they have something to that effect too, in terms of boundaries and policies around sort of, when am I sharing my ideas and where am I sharing them.

Karen Schaedlich (13:51):

Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky (13:52):

So, you know, at the top of the hour I had talked about that ANA quote that every nurse is an agent of change and an innovator. So, let's go back to that first part of the sentence in terms of being that agent for change, how does that change agentry and innovation connect for our- our nurse innovators?

Karen Schaedlich (14:09):

Well, innovation requires change.

Carol Pehotsky (14:09):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (14:12):

And that can be a hard thing for-

Carol Pehotsky (14:14):

Yeah. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (14:15):

(laughs) I, early on in my career I remember starting to say, "The only thing constant is change."

Carol Pehotsky (14:16):

Oh, for sure. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (14:21):

And I'm a traditionalist at heart, like at home, but when I'm at work, I was like, okay, I'm gonna have this mindset, and-

Carol Pehotsky (14:22):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (14:29):

... see changes as opportunities. And I think the earlier we can understand these changes can be opportunities, the better a culture can be-

Carol Pehotsky (14:36):

Hm, sure.

Karen Schaedlich (14:37):

... at adapting. So, change requires us to say, "Just because we've always done it this way- "

Carol Pehotsky (14:37):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (14:43):

" ... or we think it's working okay, we can recognize that there could be something better."

Carol Pehotsky (14:47):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (14:47):

It could better our patient outcomes-

Carol Pehotsky (14:49):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (14:49):

... satisfaction. And so, it's really kind of opening that understanding that we have to be okay with change.

Carol Pehotsky (14:56):

Yeah. Well, and I think about, you know, probably the younger generations are in a better space. My 13 year old, in her schooling they have talked about, since she was probably in first, second grade, that growth mindset. That says-

Karen Schaedlich (15:08):

Yes.

Carol Pehotsky (15:08):

... you always add, "Yet," to it. "I haven't figured this problem out yet."

Karen Schaedlich (15:12):

Absolutely.

Carol Pehotsky (15:12):

And so, it'll be fun to see as we ha- welcome new generations of nurses into the fold, what that growth mindset will bring to the spirit of innovation.

Karen Schaedlich (15:21):

Yes. Absolutely. I think that's great. And I will say, you know, the best innovation will fail if we're not willing to change.

Carol Pehotsky (15:28):

Well, sure, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (15:29):

So, it really is the last part of an innovation-

Carol Pehotsky (15:29):

Hm, mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (15:33):

... you can develop a wonderful-

Carol Pehotsky (15:33):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (15:35):

... you know, product, we'll say, and have it patented, and bring it to the marketplace-

Carol Pehotsky (15:39):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (15:40):

... but if those adopters aren't willing to make that change, it's going to fall flat.

Carol Pehotsky (15:44):

Right.

Karen Schaedlich (15:44):

And so it really is a very important piece to innovation.

Carol Pehotsky (15:48):

So, I imagine that's probably another space that some potential nurse innovators struggle with, is sorta that business, or the pitch. What kind of advice would you give somebody who says, "Well, I've got this idea, but I- I don't, I'm not a sales person, I don't know how I'd convince somebody to use it.

Karen Schaedlich (16:03):

So, you wanna surround yourself with a team that can hep.

Carol Pehotsky (16:05):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (16:06):

And truly, I think of it, like, this way, you have an expertise that is critical for this-

Carol Pehotsky (16:06):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (16:12):

... idea to move forward, everybody has their own expertise. And so, you need-

Carol Pehotsky (16:12):

Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (16:17):

... the expertise of everybody in it. So, you know, go into it knowing that you're gonna be learning and growing.

Carol Pehotsky (16:17):

Hm, mm-hmm. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (16:23):

And so, seek to have a team that's supportive and can help teach you along the way. So-

Carol Pehotsky (16:28):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (16:28):

Yes, but the last thing we want you to do is to-

Carol Pehotsky (16:31):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (16:32):

... just put it in your nightstand-

Carol Pehotsky (16:33):

Yeah. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (16:33):

... and not move forward with it.

Carol Pehotsky (16:35):

That's right. That's right.

Karen Schaedlich (16:35):

So.

Carol Pehotsky (16:36):

Like, you can tell when somebody's really passionate about something. And so that-

Karen Schaedlich (16:36):

Absolutely.

Carol Pehotsky (16:40):

... elicits support and interest in itself, is just talking to somebody who's really passionate about something.

Karen Schaedlich (16:44):

It does, yeah. And we can re- recognize then, it's so exciting when somebody's passionate. And everybody has, uh, different passion.

Carol Pehotsky (16:44):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (16:51):

And it's really fun to help move them forward with it.

Carol Pehotsky (16:54):

Yeah. So, we have hopefully some nursing leaders listening to this episode as well. So, I'm- I'm a nurse manager, I'm a CNO, I'm a director, what, as a leader of a group of nurses, can I do to help create a culture that welcomes and embraces and encourages innovation?

Karen Schaedlich (17:11):

Well, first I would say, be an innovator yourself.

Carol Pehotsky (17:15):

Okay. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (17:15):

I noticed when I get ideas through our portal, those units that have a leader that's innovating, or bring ideas-

Carol Pehotsky (17:23):

Ah, sure.

Karen Schaedlich (17:24):

... tend to have more people-

Carol Pehotsky (17:25):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (17:25):

... bringing forward ideas-

Carol Pehotsky (17:27):

Hm.

Karen Schaedlich (17:27):

... themselves. So, I would say, you know, really try to push yourself-

Carol Pehotsky (17:32):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (17:32):

... to think outside the box, so to speak.

Carol Pehotsky (17:34):

Yes.

Karen Schaedlich (17:34):

And then just having a culture of empowerment-

Carol Pehotsky (17:35):

Hm.

Karen Schaedlich (17:38):

... and encouragement I think is crucial. I think nurses are sometimes afraid the fail. We live in a-

Carol Pehotsky (17:43):

Oh, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (17:44):

... high risk environment-

Carol Pehotsky (17:44):

Yep, yep.

Karen Schaedlich (17:45):

... we have patients' lives. And so, it can feel really intimidating the bring forward ideas.

Carol Pehotsky (17:51):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (17:52):

And so, nurses sometimes are hesitant to do that.

Carol Pehotsky (17:52):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (17:55):

But the more we can encourage them and just understand that we all have different maybe outlooks and-

Carol Pehotsky (18:01):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (18:01):

... takes of how something should move forward and encourage, that I think the more you're going to have a culture where they embrace innovations.

Carol Pehotsky (18:09):

Uh, you know, you mentioned shared governance, and- and it all ties together, right? Is if you've got a group of nurses or nursing professionals on your unit that are trying to think about how to make things better, does this ultimately sometimes become a product of that too?

Karen Schaedlich (18:21):

Yeah, I would say, besides knowing that that's an opportunity-

Carol Pehotsky (18:25):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (18:25):

... I think they need to know that that is an option, and sometimes-

Carol Pehotsky (18:25):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (18:28):

... I've had teams actually come together and say, "We're identifying this problem, and we're not sure how to move forward with it- "

Carol Pehotsky (18:28):

Ah.

Karen Schaedlich (18:34):

" ... but we think there could be an innovation." 

Carol Pehotsky (18:34):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (18:36):

And so, I've gotten to work with groups, and taking that problem and really changing the narrative, and just say-

Carol Pehotsky (18:42):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (18:42):

... "How might we solve this?" And they've come up with ideas. I think it's just, again, leveraging that empowerment-

Carol Pehotsky (18:43):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (18:49):

... that we can make the changes, and that our voices need to be heard. So, the more nurses' voices are feeling confident that they can bring ideas forward-

Carol Pehotsky (18:58):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (18:58):

... whether it is continuous improvement or internal improvements, or maybe an EPIC-

Carol Pehotsky (19:02):

Sure, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (19:02):

... you know, small idea, the more we can just foster that environment to bring these ideas forward. Not all are gonna go through, and that's okay.

Carol Pehotsky (19:09):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (19:09):

That's expected.

Carol Pehotsky (19:10):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (19:11):

The more opportunity we have to actually bring forth ideas.

Carol Pehotsky (19:15):

So, I'm sure we have people listening right now that are saying, "I'd love to be an innovator, I'd love to be part of this, I just don't think I have any fresh ideas." What are some things that I could do to sorta get those nursing creative juices flowing?

Karen Schaedlich (19:27):

Uh. So, one thing that I would say, that's kind of concrete, is to have a piece of paper in your pocket, that as you're going throughout the day-

Carol Pehotsky (19:35):

Oh.

Karen Schaedlich (19:36):

... maybe if you're identifying a problem that just frustrates, because-

Carol Pehotsky (19:39):

Sure. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (19:39):

... maybe you do it five times a day, or it just-

Carol Pehotsky (19:41):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (19:41):

... stops your day.

Carol Pehotsky (19:43):

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (19:44):

Write it down-

Carol Pehotsky (19:45):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (19:45):

... don't think about it, maybe, and just keep going-

Carol Pehotsky (19:45):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (19:47):

... keep writing those things down, and then at the end of the week, month-

Carol Pehotsky (19:47):

Ah.

Karen Schaedlich (19:50):

... you can look down and see what are the things that keep popping up, that you keep-

Carol Pehotsky (19:50):

Hm.

Karen Schaedlich (19:54):

... you know, writing down.

Carol Pehotsky (19:56):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (19:56):

That's probably where your passion lies. And so, how can you help think of the, you know, opportunities. So, that is a good, concrete way. But always just have an inquisitive mindset, I think is so important.

Carol Pehotsky (19:56):

Hm, mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (20:09):

Always, if something's not fully meeting the needs, ask yourself why.

Carol Pehotsky (20:13):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (20:14):

I talked to somebody, over actually in the Netherlands, and he was saying-

Carol Pehotsky (20:18):

(laughs) Cool.

Karen Schaedlich (20:20):

... innovation's a small part. Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky (20:20):

That's right. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (20:22):

So, (laughs) but he was saying a nurse came and said, "I have no ideas, I have nothing- "

Carol Pehotsky (20:26):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (20:26):

" ... and I just wanna go home, my knees hurt."

Carol Pehotsky (20:28):

Oh. (laughs) Aw.

Karen Schaedlich (20:28):

And he's like, "Well, why are- are, do your knees hurt?" She was like, "Well, I had to get down on the floor about eight times today- "

Carol Pehotsky (20:33):

Well. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (20:34):

" ... looking at something," and, you know, one thing led to another-

Carol Pehotsky (20:36):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (20:37):

... and here she had an innovation.

Carol Pehotsky (20:38):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (20:39):

And to keep them from having to-

Carol Pehotsky (20:39):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (20:41):

... look at something that was pretty much on the floor, that she just had to get down.

Carol Pehotsky (20:45):

Wow.

Karen Schaedlich (20:45):

So, you know, you never know-

Carol Pehotsky (20:45):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (20:47):

... what your ideas are gonna stem from.

Carol Pehotsky (20:49):

So, appreciating that in your role you're exposed to lots of sensitive information, can you share with us a story that truly went from idea, all the way to a product that we could use today?

Karen Schaedlich (20:59):

Sure. So, we have the High-Line, Jane Hartman.

Carol Pehotsky (21:03):

Okay. Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (21:03):

She's a CNS here-

Carol Pehotsky (21:03):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (21:03):

... she developed ... And I just love her story, because it started out, she's a pediatric CNS-

Carol Pehotsky (21:09):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (21:09):

... and she wanted to get the lines off the floor, when her, you know, little patients were ambulating-

Carol Pehotsky (21:09):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (21:15):

... and they're, you know-

Carol Pehotsky (21:16):

Sure. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (21:17):

... dragging these lines. And so, he goal was to get these lines off the floor. And so, she developed the initial prototype in her office, it's actually with, like, a keyring, and it-

Carol Pehotsky (21:17):

Ah. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (21:26):

... it's very basic.

Carol Pehotsky (21:27):

That's so cool. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (21:28):

I love the picture of how it developed. And so, she submitted it, it was, kinda went back and forth with CC Innovations.

Carol Pehotsky (21:28):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (21:36):

And then her son, who she trusted-

Carol Pehotsky (21:39):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (21:39):

There's a good example of somebody you can trust.

Carol Pehotsky (21:41):

Yes, yep. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (21:41):

He had access to a CAD Developer, and so he created a 3D-

Carol Pehotsky (21:45):

Oh. Oh, nice.

Karen Schaedlich (21:45):

... prototype of what she was was working with.

Carol Pehotsky (21:47):

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (21:47):

And then they could really understand-

Carol Pehotsky (21:49):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (21:49):

... th- the vision.

Carol Pehotsky (21:50):

"This is what it really is." Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (21:51):

Yes, and so, they were working with it, and then came along COVID, where all of a sudden-

Carol Pehotsky (21:56):

Oh, jeez.

Karen Schaedlich (21:56):

... we're pulling pumps out of the rooms-

Carol Pehotsky (21:58):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (21:59):

... and needing a way to keep the lines off the floor. And she said she literally ran to Nancy Albert's office-

Carol Pehotsky (22:00):

Oh my gosh.

Karen Schaedlich (22:04):

... and said, "I have the solution."

Carol Pehotsky (22:06):

Wow.

Karen Schaedlich (22:06):

And so, it's really fun because that was in a time where-

Carol Pehotsky (22:09):

I didn't know it was part of the story, yeah, that's while.

Karen Schaedlich (22:10):

Uh, yeah. Yeah. And so, we were able to develop it-

Carol Pehotsky (22:13):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (22:14):

... very quickly.

Carol Pehotsky (22:14):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (22:15):

And use it in our hospitals. We also shared it with other hospitals.

Carol Pehotsky (22:15):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (22:19):

And so, since then it's been patented. She just got three patents.

Carol Pehotsky (22:22):

Awesome.

Karen Schaedlich (22:22):

And working with an external company on it. So-

Carol Pehotsky (22:24):

That's fantastic.

Karen Schaedlich (22:25):

So, it's such a fun story. Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky (22:28):

It is. And so- so nurses listening everywhere, although it doesn't have to be a thing, it can be a thing. And it can be something real, that you're making huge changes with.

Karen Schaedlich (22:36):

Mm-hmm.

Carol Pehotsky (22:37):

So, obviously there's a lotta joy that can come from this process. What would be the other benefits for a nurse to participate in innovation?

Karen Schaedlich (22:45):

I do see nurses really loving the journey and feeling like-

Carol Pehotsky (22:45):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (22:49):

... they have been part of the change agent-

Carol Pehotsky (22:49):

Yeah, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (22:52):

... that we talked about, bettering patient care. And they're the ones that really, it's almost like they need that creative outlet-

Carol Pehotsky (22:59):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (22:59):

... continually. There is the monetary.

Carol Pehotsky (23:01):

Oh, okay.

Karen Schaedlich (23:02):

And so, different hospitals have different set ups.

Carol Pehotsky (23:03):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (23:04):

And once they, if you sell it externally-

Carol Pehotsky (23:07):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (23:07):

... that there could be a portion that goes back to the inventor.

Carol Pehotsky (23:10):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (23:10):

And so, that changes, so that's something to know-

Carol Pehotsky (23:12):

(laughs) Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (23:13):

... within your hospital.

Carol Pehotsky (23:13):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (23:13):

So, there is that.

Carol Pehotsky (23:14):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (23:14):

But, you know, I would say, when people, you know, they kinda get bright eyes when I say, "There could be monetary."

Carol Pehotsky (23:15):

Yes, yes.

Karen Schaedlich (23:21):

And I say, "That's a long time down the road."

Carol Pehotsky (23:23):

Yeah. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (23:23):

If you're doing it for the money, that's the-

Carol Pehotsky (23:25):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (23:26):

... you probably won't get there.

Carol Pehotsky (23:28):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (23:28):

There's a lot of passion, patience and persistence, that-

Carol Pehotsky (23:31):

Oh, there you go.

Karen Schaedlich (23:32):

... needs to go in-

Carol Pehotsky (23:32):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (23:33):

... to the mix. So.

Carol Pehotsky (23:34):

So, we do have listeners that are Cleveland Clinic caregivers. You've inspired them, if- if I'm a Cleveland Clinic nurse, where can I go, what portal can I launch into to get some help?

Karen Schaedlich (23:44):

Yeah, so we have the Step Forward portal.

Carol Pehotsky (23:46):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (23:46):

And it's located on the nursing internet homepage-

Carol Pehotsky (23:49):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (23:49):

... on the right hand side.

Carol Pehotsky (23:50):

(laughs) All right.

Karen Schaedlich (23:51):

So, you'll see it. It's big. So, we have different sections of ideas that we take.

Carol Pehotsky (23:51):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (23:56):

It could be new or novel ideas, improvements on a product, it can be technology related. This is a largely within EPIC-

Carol Pehotsky (23:56):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (24:05):

... maybe there's a digital development that you have ideas in mind.

Carol Pehotsky (24:07):

Oh, okay. Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (24:08):

Or something within the enterprise.

Carol Pehotsky (24:10):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (24:10):

And so, that portal all goes streamline to me.

Carol Pehotsky (24:10):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (24:13):

And I respond to each idea individually.

Carol Pehotsky (24:16):

Wow.

Karen Schaedlich (24:17):

Because each idea is so unique-

Carol Pehotsky (24:17):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (24:19):

... and it can take me some time to respond to some of them.

Carol Pehotsky (24:21):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (24:21):

Sometimes I'm doing background work, just to make sure that I'm caught up on what they're talking about.

Carol Pehotsky (24:22):

Hm, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (24:27):

And then moving them to next steps. If it's something that we need to cultivate-

Carol Pehotsky (24:31):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (24:32):

... with a chance that we're going to be presenting it to CC Innovations, I like to reach out and have a meeting with them. I just think a lot happens within, you know, 20 minute conversation.

Carol Pehotsky (24:41):

Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah. (laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (24:41):

And so, we do that. If it's potentially like EPIC or digital related, or internal, then I have contacts c-

Carol Pehotsky (24:41):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (24:48):

... that can help me, and we can determine how we can provide next steps. But I always try to provide feedback, and just make sure that they know that they've been heard.

Carol Pehotsky (24:49):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (24:57):

I think that's a really big one, as-

Carol Pehotsky (24:57):

Oh, absolutely.

Karen Schaedlich (24:59):

... an old nurse manager-

Carol Pehotsky (24:59):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (25:00):

... if I can help caregivers feel heard-

Carol Pehotsky (25:03):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (25:04):

... I think that is huge for engagement, so.

Carol Pehotsky (25:07):

Sure. And- and this idea might n- not be the ne going forward, but I'm sure that the way you're responding makes them think, "Okay, I just need to keep thinking about this, maybe the next one."

Karen Schaedlich (25:15):

I hope so.

Carol Pehotsky (25:15):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (25:16):

I hope so. And sometimes it's just a matter of realizing, "Oh, I do have this idea and I'm on the right path."

Carol Pehotsky (25:22):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (25:22):

And maybe we've already thought about it. Or we've already-

Carol Pehotsky (25:24):

Sure.

Karen Schaedlich (25:24):

... considered this product-

Carol Pehotsky (25:25):

Mm-hmm.

Karen Schaedlich (25:26):

... and it's just not quite meeting our quality needs, but down the road, you could see this.

Carol Pehotsky (25:30):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (25:30):

Or something's in the works, hold on tight.

Carol Pehotsky (25:32):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (25:33):

So, I think it's a lot of just communicating with that.

Carol Pehotsky (25:35):

Wonderful. Well, Karen, you've shared so much really impactful information with the audience today. I wanted just a few more minutes and flip to the speed round, so that-

Karen Schaedlich (25:36):

Okay.

Carol Pehotsky (25:43):

... our audience can get to learn a little bit more about you as an amazing human being, in addition to all the things that you do for our nurses and your organization. So, your first question is, what's something you do for you to recharge?

Karen Schaedlich (25:56):

I love taking walks.

Carol Pehotsky (25:58):

Yeah?

Karen Schaedlich (25:58):

So, yeah, on Sundays, my mom and I take walks.

Carol Pehotsky (26:01):

Aw.

Karen Schaedlich (26:01):

And it really, it does recharge.

Carol Pehotsky (26:02):

Yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (26:03):

So, with my dog, and-

Carol Pehotsky (26:03):

(laughs)

Karen Schaedlich (26:04):

... we just go for, you know, a couple miles.

Carol Pehotsky (26:06):

Nice. Wonderful.

Karen Schaedlich (26:08):

Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky (26:08):

And if you weren't a nurse, what would your passion career be?

Karen Schaedlich (26:11):

Probably interior design or architecture.

Carol Pehotsky (26:14):

Really?

Karen Schaedlich (26:15):

I ... Yeah, I love all that. But it's fun to see as I'm creating sometimes-

Carol Pehotsky (26:19):

Oh, yeah.

Karen Schaedlich (26:19):

... with nurses, I kinda see the parallels of how I enjoy that outside of work-

Carol Pehotsky (26:20):

Okay.

Karen Schaedlich (26:24):

... and how it kinda translate to my profession now.

Carol Pehotsky (26:27):

Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Karen.

Karen Schaedlich (26:29):

Thank you for having me.

Carol Pehotsky (26:35):

As always, thanks so much for joining us for today's discussion. Don't miss out, subscribe to hear new episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, we want to hear from you. Do you have ideas for future podcasts or want to share your stories? Email us at nurseessentials@ccf.org. To learn more about nursing at Cleveland Clinic, please check us out at clevelandclinic.org/nursing. Until next time, take care of yourselves and take care of each other. The information in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only, and does not constitute medical or legal advice. Consult your local state boards of nursing for any specific practice questions.