The Intersection of Nursing and the Law: Thoughts on the Legal Aspects of Caregiving from an RN with a Law Degree

Podcast Transcript

Carol Pehotsky:

As nurses, we bring with us our full selves to nursing, and sometimes our journeys to nursing can take some really interesting paths. I'm joined today by Marilyn Crisafi, whose path has included both nursing and a legal career, and we're going to talk about the intersection between the legal aspects of nursing as well as how her path informed the nursing care she delivers today.

Hi, and welcome to Nurse Essentials, a Cleveland Clinic podcast where we discuss all things nursing, from patient care to advancing your career, to navigating tough on-the-job issues. We're so glad you're here. I'm your host, Carol Pehotsky, associate chief nursing officer of surgical services nursing.

Today's topic, we're talking about legal issues in nursing and, you know, it's been a long time since I was in nursing school, but I still remember one of my professors, as we were talking about legal issues in nursing, saying to us as a class, "It's not a matter of if you'll interact with your hospital's legal department. It's a matter of when." And for me, all those years ago, it took a topic I was already pretty, pretty intimidated and scared by and made it that much scarier. My mind went right to, well, at the time it wouldn't have been LA Law, but it would've, would've been one of those legal type shows where you automatically go to being in a witness chair or things like that. And that's where my brain went. And here we are, 20 years later, and that professor wasn't wrong. I have interacted with the legal department across my career, but it's always been so positive and such a good interaction and not scary at all.

Sometimes, it's been the legal department reaching out to me or the teams I lead with questions. Sometimes, it's been me reaching out to whoever's on call with a "We've looked at the policy. We're not sure what to do." And every time, the resounding answer back from our legal department has been "Thank you for calling. We'd always rather address an issue before than after it happens."

So, it is my great pleasure today to be joined by Marilyn Crisafi. She's a nurse at Cleveland Clinic Lutheran Hospital's Behavioral Health float pool. And Marilyn is a nurse with us, but has a journey that sort of came towards nursing and then a bit away from nursing, and then back to nursing again. So, thank you for joining me today, Marilyn.

Marilyn Crisafi:
It's my pleasure, Carol. Thank you for inviting me.

Carol Pehotsky:
Of course. Would you mind telling our audience a little about your journey to get us kicked off?

Marilyn Crisafi:
Of course. Well, I was a pre-med/English major.

Carol Pehotsky:
Ah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
so let's just throw another wrench into the gear there. But when I started to realize that medicine was not going to be my career, I did go to nursing school and loved it.

Carol Pehotsky:

Great.

Marilyn Crisafi:
I loved nursing. I loved taking care of patients. But in the background was my father, who was a lawyer, saying "Now, when are you going to law school?"

Carol Pehotsky:
Again, when not if, right?

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right. Exactly, because I guess maybe that's a- persistent theme in law, so, after 18 months of wonderful nursing, I did come back to Cleveland. I had been at Sentara Norfolk General in Virginia.

Carol Pehotsky:
Oh, okay.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And went to Cleveland State. I like to brag that I got my JD and MRS about the same year. I did meet my husband in law school and we, we did get married. It's been wonderful. But I will tell you that out of law school, I worked the dark side. So, for any of you who are, are legal savvy, at least for the nurses and healthcare workers, the dark side's the plaintiff's bar. And I'm not going to say anything negative about the plaintiff's bar. You know, we take good care. And if they think we don't, then, you know, we come to the table and we figure it out. But it gave me a really good perspective about how the plaintiff's bar operates. Now, this was many years ago, so maybe things have changed. But finally, I did get a job defending hospitals and nurses and doctors.

Carol Pehotsky:
Both sides.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky:
Wow.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Well, most of my career was in defense. And I and I really enjoyed defending my peers and making them feel comfortable amidst what was coming and trying to make them realize you are a good nurse. Here's what happened in this situation, and here's how we're going to tell the jury about what unfolded. And that way, with that perspective, I think the individual witnesses or whomever I was able to assist in representation felt more comfortable about the process. A lot of the process is explaining what's going to happen.

Carol Pehotsky:
Sure.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And that professor you were talking about instead of explaining, "Here's how things go," and the reason we have a legal department is to make sure we're giving the best care possible.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
If you're not giving the best care possible, that's when you run into legal issues. Either that's because we're human beings and human beings are prone to make mistakes. And that's why we have insurance. We're always sad when something untoward happens. It's always an uncomfortable and sad situation. But being human, we recognize it happens. One thing I very much like about Cleveland Clinic is the just culture.

And realizing all those things I just said. And we want to speak up when things happen not only to make sure things don't get worse, but to prevent them in the future if possible and to make the individual caregiver recognize you are a human being. This thing happened. You are still a good nurse. And let's go on to the next step. Do you need counseling?

Carol Pehotsky:
Sure.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Do you need to see somebody? Are you having flashbacks? You know, something like that, is that going on? So, I did defense for many, many years. I can't say I enjoyed the trial. No one enjoys trial, but we went through that. Got quite a few defense verdicts, which was great. But then I had four children in five years, and I retired.

Carol Pehotsky:
Oh. Oh, my.

Marilyn Crisafi:
That's jumping ahead just a little bit. But that takes me to an important part of the story, and that is I stayed home to raise my children. I did some volunteer work in nursing homes here and there and with my church, but the main thing I thought was important at that time in my life was to make sure those four little beings got a good home, good home education. You know, we read Goodnight Moon many times and many books in the house. And then when my last child got her license and didn't need me anymore, I really wanted to go back to nursing more than I wanted to go back to law.

Carol Pehotsky:
Oh, wow.

Marilyn Crisafi:
It would've been tough, I think, to get back into a legal career. I don't have clients. I don't have, you know, a business book to bring with me. And the nursing just called me back. And the interesting timing was it called me back six months before the pandemic.

Carol Pehotsky:
Oh, my.

Marilyn Crisafi:
So, figure that for what you will.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
But here, but here I am, you know?

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
I think the clinic kind of looked at my experience working in nursing homes as a volunteer and thought "You know, I think Gero psych is the place for you." And that's where I went.

Carol Pehotsky:
That's fantastic. What a great example of some of you listening might be in nursing school. Some of you might be thinking about going to nursing school and you've got a different career. And, and no matter who we are, we as nurses bring our whole life with us.

Marilyn Crisafi:
We do.

Carol Pehotsky:
And it sounds like you certainly didn't leave your nursing in a closet when you moved on to raise a family and to be a lawyer. We bring it with us.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Yes.

Carol Pehotsky:
And we bring our life with us when we come to this profession.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Yes, we do.

Carol Pehotsky:
I would be remiss if I didn't say at this point that yes, Marilyn is not part of the legal department, so we're gonna talk in generalities. But obviously, listeners, if you have very specific questions, look at your state practice act. Talk to your local legal department to make sure that you're following what's expected of you in your organization and state.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Absolutely. I do not give advice.

Carol Pehotsky:
No.

Marilyn Crisafi:
I'm a registered nurse.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes, and we would not ask that of you. But I am sure when your colleagues find out that you have a career as a lawyer in the past, what sort of things are they coming to you with?

Marilyn Crisafi:
Oddly, the most frequent question I get is, can you notarize something for me? And the other thing I get quite a bit is, should I do a SERS? And I'm always saying yes, because the SERS is our way, if you're concerned with something, let's bring it to the forefront. If something has come to your mind that you think you should do a SERS about, let's put some other eyes on it and see what other people think. You may be overreacting. Great. Or maybe there's something we need to know about so that we can make a change for patient safety in the future. So, I always err on the side if you have an issue, go ahead, do a SERS. Let someone else make an opinion on it too.

Carol Pehotsky:
That's what we call it here at Cleveland Clinic. It stands for safety event reporting system. So, for our listeners, that advice holds true no matter what your organization calls it. If there's a question on your mind, these are non-punitive ways that people can report, can indicate something didn't quite go right, or it could've gone wrong and didn't. And you've said it perfectly. Take a look at it and see if there's something different that needs to happen. Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
So I, as a behavior health float, I work with people who sometimes have mental illnesses that are due to brain chemistry. And we have medications that can help them regain better function. However, as a person who comes in and refuses meds, we can't get them to where they can make decisions. So, we don't force meds unless they are a threat to themselves or someone else. Then we do have a couple medications just to get them safely out of harm's way. But a routine force med takes a court decision.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Either as the guardian, if the patient has a guardian who can make decisions for them, or if that's something that has to be set up. But a nurse, at least where I work at Cleveland Clinic, we do not take it upon ourselves to make that decision. That's not a nursing decision.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
There are many factors involved in that. And once the, uh, powers that be make that decision, then, you know, under very set, specific circumstances, we can give set, specific medications. And what I will say is during my first few times giving a force med, it felt very against everything I stand for as an RN, you know, to give compassionate care. I've seen wonderful things come to patients who were not themselves for a while.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And after their brain chemistry is back to a place where they can make good decisions for themselves, they're able to live very good lives. And so, the force med issue is one that's got legal sensitivities and caregiver sensitivities, but it's been thought through by care providers and lawyers and doctors and a whole team of people to get to a decision. So, when a nurse gets to that point, it's something she should take seriously but understand that the purpose is to get somebody healthy.

Carol Pehotsky:
And a great example of if the paperwork doesn't seem to line up or if there's any question, it's a great opportunity to call the provider, to call your legal team.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Pick up the phone.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah, pick up the phone and say, "Help me understand this."

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right.

Carol Pehotsky:
And most likely, it has been put together. But a great example of asking the question first.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Exactly.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
I think that's a good policy. If you're not sure, ask somebody.

Carol Pehotsky:
So to sort of go down that same path for a little bit, we know that in that course for the care for patients, you know, you, you mentioned so eloquently the compassion for the patient who will be once their medications work, etc. We know that unfortunately, sometimes that also involves the laying on of hands.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Yes.

Carol Pehotsky:
Right? We have somebody who's confused.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right.

Carol Pehotsky:
We have somebody who's trying to hurt us or somebody else, somebody who might end up needing restraints, unfortunately. So, any thoughts around that and how to help a nurse reconcile that, making sure we're safe and we're documenting appropriately but again, protecting that patient from hurting themselves?

Marilyn Crisafi:
Absolutely. So, a physical hold requires an order. But our obligation first is to patient safety. So, if we find ourselves in a situation, which is true more than occasionally on behavioral health where a patient is suddenly enraged or depressed, threatens himself or somebody else with an object, our first obligation isn't to the chart but to the patient. So, we do what we need to do to make that patient and the patients around that patient safe.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And if that requires laying on of hands, we do that till we get the patient to a safe place either by medication or, on some occasion's restraints. And then we immediately involve the doctor. I've had such a good experience at Cleveland Clinic. They show up almost immediately to assess a situation, write the orders that are appropriate for the situation and make sure everything's in order. You will hear nurses complain, "Oh, there's so much documentation." But there is a reason.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Not just to keep the lawyers happy but because we want to make sure we're giving that patient appropriate care while they are restrained either chemically with medications or physically with restraints. And we should not hesitate to lay on hands or to get a physical hold order or what we need to do to keep patients and our other patients safe, but we need to follow up appropriately.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And the clinic has beautiful policies and flow sheets too, to make sure we're able to do that easily and well.

Carol Pehotsky:
Beautifully. So, to talk a little bit more broadly and protection in a different aspect, but when we think about nursing in general, what advice do you have for especially a new nurse that says, "Well, what can I do to, quote, 'protect' my license or to protect myself"?

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right, right. The best protection is good nursing care.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
If you come to work, you've had your breakfast, or dinner if you're a night shift you're well hydrated, you're well rested, you come in, you're ready to do your work, you're going to do a good job 90 percent of the time. There's always those 10 percent of unpredictable situations. So, let's talk about the 90 percent.

Carol Pehotsky:
Okay.

Marilyn Crisafi:
If you come in and the clinic hires well-educated, well-rounded nurses and you're ready to go, you're going to have a good day if you follow standard of care use your policies, ask if you don't know. If you're a new nurse, stake out your most experienced nurse that shift if you have a question, so you know where to go. But if you have a question, ask.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And if you find that medication errors happen, it's part of life. If you find you've made a medication error, don't hide it. Go to that go-to person right away. I was supposed to give a unit of insulin. I gave two. What do I do? And they'll tell you what to do.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
If it's something more severe, you need to call a rapid or a code or whatever. You do that. Because remember, our first obligation is to the patient. And while we might be scared or frightened or whatever our first inclination is, patient care has to come first. Or even if you are frightened, doing the wrong thing isn't going to make that any better in the long run.

Carol Pehotsky:
No.

Marilyn Crisafi:
So, we do the best we can. We ask for help. If things go wrong, there are steps we take to remedy that and to document it so that we can learn from it.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah, speaking up, you know, there was a previous episode of speaking up that mostly focused on when we're concerned about what's around us. But it does take courage, but it's so important to speak up when we are the ones that have done something that wasn't, perhaps, per protocol. I agree with that.
So safe to say then the old phrase if it's not documented, it's not done is always good advice?

Marilyn Crisafi:
That's true. It's true. Now, I will talk for just a second about charting by exception. I work in a unit where we must write a note every day.

Carol Pehotsky:
Okay.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And I also work on a unit where we don't write a note unless. So, on the unit where we don't write a note unless, is dependent on flow sheets, where there are specific things, we document.

Carol Pehotsky:
There is a different way to capture the care that's been delivered.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Yes, yes.

Carol Pehotsky:
Okay. Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And that's the preferred way on that unit. And I honor that. I'm a float. If I'm in a place that requires a note, I write my note focused on what the patient is here for. What are we trying to address?

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And how are we doing? I try to get those things in my note. Sometimes, m-, I can make a conclusion based on what I see. If the patient spends the whole day in the room, I'll say, "The patient's been withdrawn."

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah. Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Other times, it's easier to get a picture of what's going on by giving a quote. Sometimes the patient will say something. Why do you ask? I'm doing fine. I just wish those people from the FBI weren't here all the time watching me.

Carol Pehotsky:
In behavioral health especially.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right. Yes. So, making a quote, putting that quote in the patient's record helps everyone understands where the patient is without having to draw my own conclusions.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes, yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
But yeah, I do think if you do something for the patient that's important to the outcome, I'll just say, "Patient seen raising wheelchair to throw at other patient. Code violet called. This and that happened during the code violet. Patients are given this medication with good effect. This and that happened," and then follow up.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
What happened an hour later?

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's not just documenting the first time it was done, but the follow-up. Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Well, and the follow-up.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
How did it turn out? One of the most frustrating things for me, and I don't mean to, to skip ahead, but if I was looking over a record and I saw beautiful documentation, but the documentation was MD paged, MD paged, MD paged and it's like, well that's wonderful that you paged the physician, but what did you do in the, when you saw that wasn't working and the patient wasn't improving? Back to my wheelchair example. How'd the patient does after that medication? Was that a good choice for him? Was he calm the rest of the shift? Do a quick little follow-up note to let us know. You know, how'd the story end?

Carol Pehotsky:
Tell the story.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Tell the story.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Tell the story just so we know how everything worked out.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes. Yeah, even on a chart by exception, you have to be able to tell that story and close that loop so that somebody else could look at that and have the full picture of what happened before, during and after.

Marilyn Crisafi:
I like that phrase, closing the loop.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah, yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Yeah. I agree.

Carol Pehotsky:
Excellent. So, we'll go back to our friends who are in nursing school or their brand-new nurses. We've all been there, but life is a lot different as a new nurse than it was clear back when I was a new nurse, and we were documenting on paper.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right.

Carol Pehotsky:
And social, email was in DOS form.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right.

Carol Pehotsky:
So my question for us is, what are some pitfalls these days a new nurse could find itself in? And both as an experienced nurse and someone who has practiced law, what's your advice for them?

Marilyn Crisafi:
Two things come to mind. First, find that buddy. When you walk in for a report, find your go-to person. That's really important. And in some situations, it might be the unit secretary who's been there forever.

Carol Pehotsky:
Sure. They know how to make things work.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Do not shortchange the unit secretary.

Carol Pehotsky:
Ever.

Marilyn Crisafi:
They have the bird's eye on the whole unit.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yep.

Marilyn Crisafi:
They see who comes and goes. They see who needs to be paged. They see families come and go.

Carol Pehotsky:
They've already paged the person for you, practically before you get to the desk. Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
It's like Peggy, page, "I've just paged security. I don't know if you." I'm like "No, that was it. Thank you." Yeah. And the other thing is the new nurses I see coming in tend to have their phones handy. Now interestingly, I had a phone when I came back to nursing, and I left it in my locker with my purse. And then I realized a lot of these nurses need the calculator on the phone.

Carol Pehotsky:
Sure.
Marilyn Crisafi:
Boom, it's right there.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
They have their calculator or, you know, they can look up a policy, like, on Rover. They can look up policies on Rover. They can do a lot of things on Rover. But one thing that's very important is to get out of the habit of reaching for the phone when something entertaining happens. You're not at home.

Carol Pehotsky:
Oh my gosh.

Marilyn Crisafi:
You're not in your yard.

Carol Pehotsky:
Right.

Marilyn Crisafi:
You are in a professional organization taking care of somebody at their sickest, at their worst, at their most needy. They don't need you to have your phone out. Whether you're actually taking a picture or making a meme or texting It's true.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
So leave your phone in your pocket unless you're at the nurses' station figuring out a calculation or you're on your Rover and you're scanning a med, something like that. It's going to keep you safe. It's going to keep the patients safe. We just don't need social media mixing with our careers.

We deal with highly sensitive information, and it needs to stay where it is for a lot of reasons. So yeah, leave you, leave your phone in your pocket unless you're doing something professional with it.

Carol Pehotsky:
Well, that sentence is really important. I think people think there's such things as downtime at work where they can pull out their phone and look at social media even if they're not interacting with it. And all those things have a timestamp.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right. Well, if you're at lunch and you want to pull out your phone or you're taking your 15 and you are in a private staff area, you can go ahead. But I will tell you coming into my shift when I see caregivers on their phones, it not only tells me you're not taking care of patients, but it also tells me you're not paying attention.

Carol Pehotsky:
Right.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And the other thing is we don't need patients thinking that you're doing something inappropriate.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah, you're looking up medication. It's that appearance of "Why are you on your phone?"

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right.

Carol Pehotsky:
"Aren't you paying attention to me?"

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right. Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky:
Sure.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Exactly. Just leave it in your pocket. And, and if you're on behavioral health, we have a wonderful tool called the rounding phone. And one of the parts of our orientation is to explain this to the patient.

Carol Pehotsky:
Oh, okay.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Why does that nurse have her phone if I can't have my phone?

Carol Pehotsky:
Right. Sure.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And we explain, "That's one of our tools."

Carol Pehotsky:

Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
"It's called the rounding tool, and it's a way for us to check in that we've laid eyes on you every 15 minutes." And that gives them peace of mind in two ways. One, they know we're not on our phone.

Carol Pehotsky:
Right.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Or talking about them as we look at them. We're charting that we see you and you look okay. And the other thing is some of the patients that may come in with apprehension. We're not following you. We're not checking up on you because we're nosy.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
It's something that's part of our protocol to keep you safe that we need to lay eyes on you every 15 minutes. So that being part of our orientation, it, it helps dispel a lot of difficulties.

Carol Pehotsky:
Well and I think it's a great nugget of wisdom for all of us. As increasingly we use the Epic app on a phone, perhaps, or other technologies, really being candid with our patients because that, whether it's behavioral health or not that this is a technology I use.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Yes.

Carol Pehotsky:
This is why I'm focusing on it, but I'm never focusing more on it than you.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Right.

Carol Pehotsky:
Well, I could talk to you all day, but we're running out of time. So, I want to flip a little bit to some of our fun speed round questions at the end, if you don't mind.

Marilyn Crisafi:

Not at all.

Carol Pehotsky:
So this is a new question to the speed round for those of you who've been listening. But the planning committee, uh, that I'm so blessed to work with on these, we've started talking about the topic of is nursing a calling or is it a career. So, you are my first guinea pig. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that? For you, was nursing a calling or was it a career, or maybe a little bit of both?

Marilyn Crisafi:
You made it hard. I thought you were gonna say, "Is it a job or a career?" And I was gonna say it's not a job. It is a career. But you know what? I have to tell you nurses are still the most trusted profession. I think it's either 10 or 20 years coming now that we, that we have earned that designation. And it isn't because it's our job, and I don't even think it's because our, uh, it's our career. In the past 20 or 30 years, nurses have elevated themselves to a professional grade.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
And we are professionals.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Nursing is a profession, but I think because of everything we see and do and say, and the trust that we have with our patients, uh, who are also our clients and those we care for, it has to be a calling.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yes.

Marilyn Crisafi:
We have to be able to say, "I am called to do this." I am called to deliver bad news if I need to. I am called to be there and hold someone's hand if a caregiver has bad news to share with a patient. I am, I am called to convince that elderly dementia patient that I am not there to harm him but to help him.

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
I am called, if need be, too, to take an accidental blow to the shoulder or something. You know?

Carol Pehotsky:
Yeah, yeah.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Because if that was someone's job, they wouldn't do it. And if you're called, it's part of you're calling. I may have had a long night and I may have had difficult patients or whatever you want to say, but I do like making people feel better.

Carol Pehotsky:
Sure.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Whether it's behavioral health or something on a medical unit, even if I go back and I do my pain reassessment, "Hey, did that Tylenol help you at all?" yeah, I'm feeling pretty good.

Carol Pehotsky:
Excellent. And then the last question. Real easy. Ha, ha. What brings you joy?

Marilyn Crisafi:
Got a lot of faith stuff in my background.

Carol Pehotsky:
Okay.

Marilyn Crisafi:
So when I bring my faith to my job, I don't talk about it, but I will bring it with me.

Carol Pehotsky:
It's personal for you. Hmm.

Marilyn Crisafi:
It's personal for me, and I like people to be able to know my faith background by how I'm taking care of them, not by anything I say. If I've had to talk to people about it. You know, I'm no witness at all. So, it brings me joy to be able to bring my whole faith into the whole person and to be able to use that to take care of the person's body, their mind, their emotional health and their psychological health.

Carol Pehotsky:
Well, Marilyn, I cannot thank you enough for joining me today. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise and all sorts of things with our audience.

Marilyn Crisafi:
Thank you, Carol.

Carol Pehotsky:
As always, thanks so much for joining us for today's discussion. Don't miss out. Subscribe to hear new episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, we want to hear from you. Do you have ideas for future podcasts or want to share your stories? Email us at nurseessentials@ccf.org.

To learn more about nursing at Cleveland Clinic, please check us out at clevelandclinic.org/nursing. Until next time, take care of yourselves and take care of each other.

The information in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute medical or legal advice. Consult your local state boards of nursing for any specific practice questions.