Maintaining a Healthy Bottom Line: How Nurses Can Impact Healthcare Finances

Podcast Transcript

Carol Pehotsky (00:04):

Healthcare finance is not necessarily a topic that is top of mind for most nurses, but we cannot turn a blind eye in today's healthcare environment to this area. It doesn't necessarily mean we need an MBA or a CPA, but basic awareness and curiosity is so important. We have to care about this so we can deliver the level of care our patients need and deserve. I'm joined today by Matt Slife, Executive Director for Nursing Operations to talk more about healthcare, finance, and its implications for nursing practice.

(00:35):

Hi, and welcome to Nurse Essentials, a Cleveland Clinic podcast where we discuss all things nursing from patient care to advancing your career, to navigating tough on-the-job issues. We're so glad you're here. I'm your host, Carol Pehotsky, Associate Chief Nursing Officer of Surgical Services Nursing.

(00:56):

Welcome back everyone. A lot of us go into nursing for a lot of reasons. You've heard me talking about really a calling versus a career, and people come to nursing for all sorts of reasons. And along those lines, sometimes you hear nurses at one point in time, I was that nurse too who really didn't want to really think about finances and the cost of healthcare and the cost that it takes to deliver healthcare. But here we are recording this in quarter one of 2025, and it's impossible to ignore really the costs of healthcare, whether that's in the supplies we need to deliver it, the impact of those costs to the patients we serve, how we as nurses can be part of that solution. Whether it's the ideas we have or in how we deliver care to our patients. We really have to be at the table and bring those ideas and considering those things, whether you are a listener, who's a nursing student, or all the way well into your career.

So with that, it's my great pleasure to introduce you all to my guest today we have with us Matt Slife. Matt is the Executive Director of nursing operations. My good friend and office neighbor. Welcome, Matt.

Matt Slife (01:59):

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. I'm happy to be here.

Carol Pehotsky (02:01):

Yeah, you, you are our first solo non-nurse guest, so congratulations.

Matt Slife (02:05):

Wow, I feel honored.

Carol Pehotsky (02:05):

(Laughs). We can't, couldn't think of a better person to have on here.

Matt Slife (02:11):

So, you're going to tolerate me for the next 30 minutes.

Carol Pehotsky (02:12):

(Laughs). Oh, stop it.

Matt Slife (02:13):

[inaudible 00:02:13]. Good.

Carol Pehotsky (02:12):

So, you've had a, a great career that has led you all the way into nursing with your background. So, I'd, I'd love for you to share with our audience the road that led you here.

Matt Slife (02:23):

Yeah, so, well, I double majored in accounting and finance and college.

Carol Pehotsky (02:29):

Ooh, that sounds really exciting.

Matt Slife (02:29):

It is. It is.

Carol Pehotsky (02:29):

(Laughs).

Matt Slife (02:29):

It's, it's very exciting. So, I staffed for the CPA exam and my goal in college was to, to work for one of the big four accounting firms.

Carol Pehotsky (02:34):

Oh.

Matt Slife (02:34):

So, I did, I joined KPMG. It was a fabulous experience actually. So, I got to see how other businesses make money.

Carol Pehotsky (02:34):

Okay.

Matt Slife (02:41):

That was the most important thing for me, is to see how they make money. But as I started visiting my clients, I started to get more inclined to, to want to join the clients. In fact, I almost moved to Western Michigan at one point and joined another big organization. So, I wanted to stay local.

Carol Pehotsky (02:54):

Okay.

Matt Slife (02:54):

So, I started to look at what industry would make sense. So where should, where can I go land? And healthcare appealed to me for a few reasons. One, we have the best healthcare in our backyard, so I'd be working with the smartest people. And, and second is healthcare hasn't been value engineered down to the nearest penny. So, the assembly lines haven't been cleaned out and it's changing. So, there's a lot of opportunity. So, I want to join somewhere I can make an impact.

Carol Pehotsky (03:15):

Okay. And so talk us through then, you know, you've spent quite some time at the Cleveland Clinic, so what has that journey been like for you here in our organization in terms of the roles you've had and the, the impact you've had with us so far?

Matt Slife (03:27):

Yeah. It's been, it's been great. It's been a great 15 years since-

Carol Pehotsky (03:30):

15. Wow. All right. (Laughs).

Matt Slife (03:32):

Yeah, gone fast. But I started off in a traditional finance function.

Carol Pehotsky (03:35):

Okay.

Matt Slife (03:35):

So corporate finance function. And then I eventually shifted into more of an, an operational role, kind of straddling that in lab until I got into nursing where I'm, I'm a pure operational role. So, I've worked my way kind of out of the finance realm and into the operational role. But I still fall back on that finance background.

Carol Pehotsky (03:50):

Well, and we're so fortunate in nursing to have you on our team as well as to have that background. So, lots of questions to ask and, and stay with us nurses. This is, this is really good stuff. If you're like, "Oh my God, they're talking about money."

Matt Slife (03:51):

(Laughs).

Carol Pehotsky (04:03):

No, this is important. This is important for the future of our industry and the care we deliver. So, when we think about financial importance, we're, we're not going to spend time talking about spreadsheets and EBITDA and all of that. Right? But thinking about the health of a healthcare organization, how it performs, what are some of the most important variables? Let's talk about that first. What creates the most impact?

Matt Slife (04:25):

So, I'm a big advocate of getting the right people on the bus and in the right seats-

Carol Pehotsky (04:29):

Okay.

Matt Slife (04:29):

... good things happen. But healthcare is more than anything else, is a people-driven business.

Carol Pehotsky (04:29):

Mm-hmm.

Matt Slife (04:34):

So, if you follow people that innovate and communicate, show compassion, go the extra mile, patients are going to want to go there. So, from the financial health of an organization standpoint, volume is the lifeblood. If you don't have patients coming, you're not going to make money regardless of what your cost structure looks like. So, if you get the right people in the right seats and they can think critically on how to make the operation better, things should go fine long term.

Carol Pehotsky (04:55):

You know, at times I think nurses feel like they're just wanting us to do more. But when you really look at it as if you're proud of the care you deliver, you would want everyone to have access to it.

Matt Slife (04:55):

Right.

Carol Pehotsky (05:04):

It's that same end goal, but it really is a giving goal.

Matt Slife (05:08):

Hundred percent. Yep.

Carol Pehotsky (05:09):

And it serves the healthy organization at the same time.

Matt Slife (05:12):

(Laughs).

Carol Pehotsky (05:12):

So, there's no shortage of challenges facing healthcare today. And an organization needs to have the financial lifeblood to continue to exist. So how do organizations achieve long-term financial sustainability when we do have across the industry, staffing challenges, change, reimbursement models, all sorts of things in flux?

Matt Slife (05:31):

Yeah. I mean, I agree with you. Clearly there's headwinds. Over the past several years, healthcare margins have fluctuated in between about 1 and 4%, and hospitals need about 3% to meet its financial obligations every single year.

Carol Pehotsky (05:43):

Why is it important to have a margin? What does that do?

Matt Slife (05:46):

So, all the money you bring in-

Carol Pehotsky (05:47):

Okay.

Matt Slife (05:47):

... minus all the money you spend.

Carol Pehotsky (05:49):

Okay.

Matt Slife (05:49):

That's a margin. That's a negative margin if you're losing money that year.

Carol Pehotsky (05:52):

So, you said 1 to 4%.

Matt Slife (05:54):

It's been about the average of the past couple years.

Carol Pehotsky (05:54):

Okay.

Matt Slife (05:56):

So, it's razor thin.

Carol Pehotsky (05:57):

Yeah.

Matt Slife (05:57):

Other industries that we're in the, well in the double digits. But again, hospitals don't need as much. We don't have to pay out shareholders. There are no taxes to pay. So that operating margin of 3% is what they can live off of to meet its obligations and remain solvent.

Carol Pehotsky (06:11):

So again, naive to some of the lingo is margin the same thing as profit?

Matt Slife (06:16):

It's absolutely not the same as profit.

Carol Pehotsky (06:16):

Okay.

Matt Slife (06:18):

It enables us to reinvest in our mission. So that's what margin means at the Cleveland Clinic.

Carol Pehotsky (06:22):

We wanted to linger there, listeners, because there are some healthcare organizations that are for profit, but many of us, including Cleveland Clinic, are non-profit. It's, it's about sustaining the mission, not as you'd mentioned, paying back shareholders and other things.

Matt Slife (06:34):

Yep.

Carol Pehotsky (06:35):

Thank you for that clarification.

Matt Slife (06:35):

Sure.

Carol Pehotsky (06:36):

Alright. So, lots of challenges. We need to be able to invest in our people, in our facilities, and to have the supplies deliver the care to the patients who we want to serve.

Matt Slife (06:47):

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, Americans have an expectation. Employers have an expectation of what they're willing to pay for healthcare of, and they want the best in the world.

Carol Pehotsky (06:47):

Mm-hmm.

Matt Slife (06:54):

United States, it's natural. That is an imbalance at this point. So that's what, what's creating issues for hospitals. So, your traditional hospitals are going to have to be more innovative, whether that's technology and getting people in the right setting of care to remain solvent. And unfortunately, not every hospital's going to be in the situation where they're going to be able to do that because they don't have either the capital or the footprint to expand upon. And so, they're going to look for joint ventures and partnerships.

Carol Pehotsky (07:17):

Lots of words there. (Laughs).

Matt Slife (07:17):

Sure.

Carol Pehotsky (07:18):

Let's go back to capital.

Matt Slife (07:19):

Yep.

Carol Pehotsky (07:20):

So capital are those big investment dollars. Things I need, I need buildings-

Matt Slife (07:24):

Buildings, beds.

Carol Pehotsky (07:25):

... I need beds.

Matt Slife (07:26):

Correct.

Carol Pehotsky (07:26):

All right. So, when we think about the, the capital that nurses interact with, you said beds, right? So maybe a nurse has an idea of, you know, I, I, I went to a conference, right? Or I went online, and I saw this really cool new bed. We'd really like to get this new bed. How would any of us, how does an organization or how does a nursing team... We want to listen to the care voice of the caregiver, right? Some of these innovations, whether it's a bed, whether it's any type of thing, right? Could serve our patients in a different way. Sometimes they come at expense. So how would you recommend nurses sort of voice that idea and how do organizations assess that return on investment, the risk versus, versus benefits of some of these expenses?

Matt Slife (08:07):

No, it's exactly what we're looking for. If there's a reason we send nurses to conferences, there's a reason that vendors come in and give presentations is we want that innovation. We want to change; we want to see what's out there. And people like me sitting in an office aren't going to be able to identify those things that are, that are actually going to be helpful. So, we want nurses to bring it forward. There's a number of different ways they can go. You bring it forward to their leadership team. At the Clinic, we have what we call the nursing products evaluation committee.

Carol Pehotsky (08:30):

Mm-hmm.

Matt Slife (08:30):

And that evaluates, as you just said, the cost versus benefits that it provides back. And that's made up of nurses at all different levels from all our different locations that help make those decisions.

Carol Pehotsky (08:41):

So, let's say I'm not fortunate enough to work at Cleveland Clinic.

Matt Slife (08:44):

Sure.

Carol Pehotsky (08:45):

And I see something online, I see a technology, my reaction might be there's no point in even bringing this up. It looks super expensive. Where do I take that idea though?

Matt Slife (08:55):

Well, if you don't work at the Clinic, the first thing I would suggest is, come get a job here.

Carol Pehotsky (08:58):

That's right. Yeah. (Laughs).

Matt Slife (09:00):

We have openings now. But in all seriousness, if you're bringing an idea forward, there's usually a dyad between the clinical team and the operations team at any hospital. And it looks different in different locations. Bring it forward to both of those team members is what I would recommend first. But bring it through your leadership team and try to get their feedback because they might have already explored it and said, "You know what? This doesn't make sense for us."

Carol Pehotsky (09:19):

Mm, sure.

Matt Slife (09:19):

Or we've talked with this vendor, and we have a contract now with another vendor for 10 years. So, it's not something we can approach at this point.

Carol Pehotsky (09:25):

One, I think the other piece too is, and, and I love how you brought up that dyad, is that it isn't always just cost, right? If this technology, whatever it is, is it a bed? Is it some sort of electronic device? Whatever it is. If it reduces the length of stay, if it prevents pressure injuries, if it does something else that avoids a cost to us, then that return on investment might actually be in our favor.

Matt Slife (09:51):

100%. And we see that all the time. And even, I mean, you get the vendors, and they'll make some promises and, and even so you'll do it on a trial basis.

Carol Pehotsky (09:58):

Mm-hmm.

Matt Slife (09:59):

So, you'll put it in play in a couple units, at a couple different locations. Not only we get feedback on the outcomes that are promised, but also feedback from the caregivers too on how it performs.

Carol Pehotsky (10:07):

So those are some big things. Right?

Matt Slife (10:09):

Yep.

Carol Pehotsky (10:10):

Some technologies are very big. What are some other sort of smaller scale things that you've seen ideas brought forth that you've been a part of seeing change and, and the financial impact they've had?

Matt Slife (10:21):

Yeah, actually just recently we started this Bright Ideas program, and some great ideas came forward from our caregivers, a grassroots effort. An example of one of those was our BP Cuffs. So, we've been using since COVID, disposable BP Cuffs. But there was a nurse manager, Medina, who took it upon herself to replace those with reusable. So not only does it eliminate waste, it's a green initiative, but it saves money as well. So just that one location, the one little department saved $11,000 a year.

Carol Pehotsky (10:47):

Oh wow.

Matt Slife (10:47):

So, it was great.

Carol Pehotsky (10:48):

And what, and it's a great point that sometimes I think any of us, whether it's in our, our personal checkbooks (laughs) or in our, our organizational checkbooks, like well that's so small that won't make a difference. But something little can really multiply itself.

Matt Slife (11:02):

Yeah. So, we, we actually looked, and we spend a fair amount on disposable cups at this point.

Carol Pehotsky (11:02):

Mm-hmm.

Matt Slife (11:06):

So, we're doing an enterprise review of that now. And actually, I think it's going to turn into significant dollars just from the one caregiver's idea.

Carol Pehotsky (11:11):

That's fantastic. So certainly, it's been a long time since I went to nursing school, but I (laughs) suspect the same is true today. Nurses really don't receive training in finance or business strategy as part of our initial education. What are some things that any nurse should really take upon themselves to learn, things that they should stay in tune to in terms of the financial health of their organizations or other things they should be listening to in terms of healthcare finance?

Matt Slife (11:39):

So, I think that Dr. Mihaljevic says it well is think of the organization as it was your home.

Carol Pehotsky (11:45):

Mm-hmm.

Matt Slife (11:45):

And so, if you go back, would you negotiate to buy a car and take the first price the salesman gave you? Probably not. No.

Carol Pehotsky (11:51):

Hopefully not. (Laughs).

Matt Slife (11:52):

Would you buy, buy, uh, multiple streaming services that only work half the time? Probably not. Would you buy a bulk pack of milk of three and know you're only going to use one? Clinicians actually have the most visibility to where waste could be. So, I think that's what we're looking for. Not only how do you optimize the resources they have from a, a labor standpoint, but also supplies, equipment, services.

Carol Pehotsky (12:13):

Mm.

Matt Slife (12:13):

But a lot of times that we do have things that we bought that we don't use as much. So, think about how we could optimize and share them across the enterprise.

Carol Pehotsky (12:19):

Well, that's a great point. You think about even, you know, over the course of, of my tenure, things like, you know, can we put supplies in a different place so that the, instead of the person saying, "I'm going to  take five with me."

Matt Slife (12:32):

Yep.

Carol Pehotsky (12:32):

"So that I don't have to keep running back and forth. If you put it in a different place, then I only take one with me. Because I can get a second one. If that IV start didn't work out or I need a second urinary catheter, it's, it's okay because there's another one there versus, I'll take three." Open all three of them, but only need one.

Matt Slife (12:47):

Correct.

Carol Pehotsky (12:48):

Yeah. And that, that, that adds up quickly, I imagine.

Matt Slife (12:50):

Well, a hundred percent. And there's, there's hundreds of those examples out there.

Carol Pehotsky (12:54):

So certainly, when we look at how to enact change, there's lots of models out there, right? There's Lean, there's Six Sigma, there's other things. Have you ever used that methodology? Is there, is there something to be said for some of those methodologies and, and how nurses could apply some of those change management strategies or process improvement strategies to some of this work?

Matt Slife (13:12):

Sure. I actually got my, my Lean certification. I didn't mention that earlier, but I mean, Lean's all about creating value for the patients.

Carol Pehotsky (13:12):

Mm-hmm.

Matt Slife (13:19):

And I believe Michael Porter, who's brilliant by the way, came up with a value equation. Value in healthcare equals cost over quality. I like to look at it a little bit differently too. I think there's a third dimension that has come up even recently, and I think it's access.

Carol Pehotsky (13:19):

Ah.

Matt Slife (13:32):

Can our patients access care? So, in every intervention you put in place, you have to evaluate all three of those cost, quality, and access to make sure that it's not impacting and recruiting an imbalance.

Carol Pehotsky (13:42):

So, we've spent a lot of time talking about sort of the way we deliver care, but I'm glad that you brought this point up about access. We know there's a financial impact to the care we deliver and how we deliver it. Can you talk us through a little bit about the financial implications of access and of the patient experience?

Matt Slife (14:00):

Sure. I mean, there are two interrelated things. So, as I said it, healthcare is a people business. So, if you go and receive care, if your outcomes are poor, if the staff is rude, or if you can't get your appointment. So, every interaction that patients have from the time they make their appointment to the time they pay their bill off and that's closed is important. If a patient's not happy, they have choices, especially in Northeast Ohio-

Carol Pehotsky (14:21):

Yeah.

Matt Slife (14:21):

... and Florida. I mean, both of our, our main locations, they have a lot of different choices they can go to for healthcare. So, if they're not satisfied, they can move on to somewhere else. And again, volume is the lifeblood of a hospital, that becomes a challenge for us.

Carol Pehotsky (14:33):

And now there's financial penalties associated with that.

Matt Slife (14:36):

Sure. I mean, from a patient experience standpoint, the H gaps and value-based purchasing are certainly the formalized way. But going back to just the, the patient perception, that's probably even a bigger impact-

Carol Pehotsky (14:45):

Okay. Yeah.

Matt Slife (14:46):

... if they're not happy with the care they receive.

Carol Pehotsky (14:47):

And they're going to tell everybody.

Matt Slife (14:49):

Correct. Yep. And it's posted on social media.

Carol Pehotsky (14:51):

(Laughs). Boy, that's true. So one of the things that I think we take for granted here, and really has been pointed out to me by former colleagues of ours that have moved on to other organizations is just how much there is that dyad or triad decision making where it's, you know, very much it's physicians, nurses and administrator type colleagues coming together to make decisions, which isn't necessarily the same everywhere else. So, hoping from your vantage point you can share with us, especially in this framework, how have nurses helped influence some of the decisions you've been part of or decisions you've made?

Matt Slife (15:30):

Yeah, so I mean, for, for better or worse, nurses give immediate feedback.

Carol Pehotsky (15:30):

(Laughs).

Matt Slife (15:33):

Um, and they're very open and honest. I, I, I see that at work and then I see when I go home as well.

Carol Pehotsky (15:38):

(Laughs). That's right.

Matt Slife (15:39):

With my better half, who's also a nurse. So, I, I get that immediate feedback too. So, and I appreciate that, which is good. It actually makes my, my job a lot easier to know where people stand. But I try to stay in my operational lane as much as possible. And I try to get feedback from nurses at all levels of the organization. I sit very near to you.

Carol Pehotsky (15:39):

Mm-hmm.

Matt Slife (15:54):

So, I run things by you. Is this a good idea? There's the reasonableness check, but I've recently even hired nurses on my team so I can get more of a real time assessment that things are good or bad idea or new ideas can come forward from them. So, I think nurses are very smart and they know their business and they know their patients better than anyone else.

Carol Pehotsky (16:10):

It's been great having you on the team too, because you can also gut check us when it's like, "Nobody ever gives us anything." (Laughs). It's like we get into our feelings too, a little bit and to say like, "Alright, take a deep breath and let's really think about, you know, what is it you're trying to accomplish? Is this thing that you're advocating for, whether it's another person, a technology, whatever this thing is, is this really going to accomplish what you're looking for, or is it the latest thing that seems like it might? What are the outcomes going to be?"

Matt Slife (16:39):

Well, it's nice. I feel the same way. It's a great balance on both sides.

Carol Pehotsky (16:41):

Yep. Yep. So going back to that cost over quality piece of it. So, what else should nurses be thinking about? I'm thinking about the nursing students are, are coming in. I can't even imagine what healthcare is going to look like for them. Right? So, they're, they're coming into this field, they shouldn't be scared. Right? It's, it's never been a better time to be a nurse. And they're going to see all sorts of different models in their career, but they're, they're coming in with fresh eyes. They've been born in technology. That's all they know, versus some of us nurses that still remember paper days. What's some advice that you would give them in terms of sort of keeping that in the back of their mind about the quality they can deliver, the cost, the implications, how to keep value at the front of their nursing career?

Matt Slife (17:19):

I actually think you hit the nail on the head with the technology. I mean, a lot of them have grown up in a different generation than their leaders. And if there's a lot of administrative and semi-redundant tasks in healthcare, having them ask the questions, can we automate this?

Carol Pehotsky (17:31):

Mm.

Matt Slife (17:31):

And I've seen a tool in my studies, or I've seen a tool when I travel to different location or in my rotations. Can we use this tool to make ourselves more efficient? So, I think there's a lot of opportunity there.

Carol Pehotsky (17:42):

Yeah.

Matt Slife (17:42):

We can learn a lot from the new nurses.

Carol Pehotsky (17:43):

That's a great point. You know, some of us think about the solution, going back to our earlier question, the solution is more people. These days and age, the solution might be, I hate to say it might be AI, might be automation, might be things that some of us just can't even imagine. But this next generation of nurses is probably going to have to think about it even more than we can imagine now.

Matt Slife (18:01):

Yeah. We see it on the administrative side too. I mean, a lot of the, the newer folks we bring in, they bring fresh ideas. So, we've looked at things the same way... Again, I've been here at the clinic 15 years.

Carol Pehotsky (18:09):

Yeah.

Matt Slife (18:09):

Some of the things we've done the same way for 15 years straight. People are coming in disrupting it. I think it's fantastic.

Carol Pehotsky (18:14):

Yeah. I am a leader, and we have plenty leaders who listen in who are of that older generation. (Laughs). What should we be doing to educate our teams about the implications of finance? We're not necessarily going to, you know, pull out the spreadsheets and the balance sheet and start going over that. That's not necessarily going to resonate with our teams. What are some things we should be doing to educate our teams to help them feel informed and to understand the importance of all of this?

Matt Slife (18:38):

So, I think you're making it real for them. So instead of talking about balance sheet line items or profit and loss statements, that's going to just go right over their heads not be important. Nor should it be, they should be focused on the quality of the patient, but is explaining to them the implications of proper charting and documentation-

Carol Pehotsky (18:54):

Mm.

Matt Slife (18:54):

... on their patients. There are revenue implications with that. I think the other thing is, is how they use supplies and products as well. I think you can show examples of, look, you used X number of supplies on this. You probably could have used this alternate product. But I think that's important. And I also think it's important to put the innovative spirit in the nurse. So as a leader trying to encourage that with their teams, by creating these Lean processes and Gemba Walk to look through things.

Carol Pehotsky (19:18):

That opportunity that says shared governance can take a lot of forms including, you know, I think back to, gosh, this is like 10 years ago, but in the peripatetic space, we had an unlicensed caregiver who said, "Hey, why do we use Product A instead of product B?" saved the organization a million dollars. (Laughs). Something as simple as just the questions. So as leaders creating that space that says, "Bring your ideas however small. Don't edit yourself. Bring them to us and let us help you at least investigate to see what's there."

Matt Slife (19:50):

Yeah. And I think as you, you touched on shared governance too, I think encouraging their team members to participate in the shared governance councils. Again, when it's nursing products, evaluation committee, play retention committee, all those have financial implications.

Carol Pehotsky (20:01):

Well, yeah, actually, let's go there for a second. So, retention is so important, but it's very expensive when we don't have it, isn't it?

Matt Slife (20:09):

It's very expensive. It turns into contracted labor.

Carol Pehotsky (20:12):

Right.

Matt Slife (20:12):

Which is... Again, there's, there's wonderful contract labor nurses.

Carol Pehotsky (20:12):

Mm-hmm.

Matt Slife (20:15):

But we want our trained own team here.

Carol Pehotsky (20:17):

Yeah. Just, just even the process of hiring-

Matt Slife (20:20):

[inaudible 00:20:20].

Carol Pehotsky (20:19):

... a new caregiver, training them, that, that comes at a cost.

Matt Slife (20:23):

Absolutely.

Carol Pehotsky (20:23):

So, you know, again, as listeners, we want our nurses to stay. (Laughs). We want our colleagues to stay and say, "We, this is the best place we can possibly be. Because we have shared governance, we feel valued by our colleagues." But there's a cost that comes with that in terms... Even if we don't, you don't end up contracting other individuals, it's the churn that comes with, now I'm working extra shifts, or what does that look like that's, that work is not being done and someone else needs to do it? All right. Well, Matt, thank you so much. You've had a ton of resources. We're all the better for it. And I can't thank you enough for joining us today.

Matt Slife (20:56):

Pleasure's been on all this side of the table, Carol. Thank you.

Carol Pehotsky (20:56):

Oh, stop it.

Matt Slife (20:56):

Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky (20:57):

So, so before you leave us though, we're going to flip to the speed round so that people can get to know you-

Matt Slife (21:01):

Uh-oh.

Carol Pehotsky (21:01):

... as an amazing human being and a financial whiz.

Matt Slife (21:04):

Okay.

Carol Pehotsky (21:04):

So first, I know that yes, you've got your better half who's a nurse who I'm sure keeps you (laughs)-

Matt Slife (21:05):

(Laughs).

Carol Pehotsky (21:11):

... very busy. But when it's finally time for you to recharge, what are you doing for yourself?

Matt Slife (21:15):

Few and far between when I get opportunities. When I'm not an Uber driver for my kids-

Carol Pehotsky (21:18):

(Laughs).

Matt Slife (21:19):

... I, I like to try to play a little golf.

Carol Pehotsky (21:20):

All right.

Matt Slife (21:20):

I'll get up early in the morning, play golf, and when it's warm out, maybe we try to get away and go skiing when we can.

Carol Pehotsky (21:25):

Oh, nice. And what's something about you that surprises people?

Matt Slife (21:29):

Well, being a, a, a semi-rigid finance person, that there's not the, the art bone in me that people think.

Carol Pehotsky (21:35):

(Laughs).

Matt Slife (21:35):

But actually, I decorate and make cakes, believe it or not. So that's, uh-

Carol Pehotsky (21:35):

Really?

Matt Slife (21:39):

Yeah. Like the ones on TV. So, I'm not as good as those folks obviously. But I do decorate and make cakes. I've made them, since my kids were really little and make them for their birthdays.

Carol Pehotsky (21:47):

That's so cool. Alright, so I'll look forward to the next cake at the next nursing event courtesy of Matt Slife. (Laughs).

Matt Slife (21:52):

(Laughs). It takes me a long time.

Carol Pehotsky (21:53):

(Laughs). Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on today.

Matt Slife (21:56):

Thanks, Carol. Appreciate it.

Carol Pehotsky (22:01):

As always, thanks so much for joining us for today's discussion. Don't miss out. Subscribe to hear new episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, we want to hear from you. Do you have ideas for future podcasts or want to share your stories? Email us at nurseessentials@ccf.org. To learn more about nursing at Cleveland Clinic, please check us out at clevelandclinic.org/nursing. Until next time, take care of yourselves and take care of each other. The information in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute medical or legal advice. Consult your local state boards of nursing for any specific practice questions.