How Nurse Mentorship Can Boost Confidence and Foster Growth

Podcast Transcript

Carol Pehotsky:

How do I know if I need a mentor? Are you ever too grown up in your career to benefit from one? And what do I do if somebody asks me to be a mentor? I'm joined today by my friend and colleague Lydia Booher, as we explore the topic of mentorship.

Hi, and welcome to Nurse Essentials, a Cleveland Clinic podcast where we discuss all things nursing, from patient care to advancing your career, to navigating tough on the job issues. We're so glad you're here. I'm your host, Carol Pehotsky, Associate Chief Nursing Officer of Surgical Services Nursing.

When you think about mentorship, there's no shortage of literature out there in the world to tell us how fantastic mentorship is for the mentor, for the mentee. Reflecting as we prepared for today's episode, I've certainly spent a lot of time thinking about mentors in my life. I wouldn't be the mom, the stepmom, or the nurse I am today without the influence of mentors in my life. And it gets you thinking, are you ever too old to ask for a mentor? Are you ever too grown up in your career to be a mentor or to benefit from being a mentor? And I think that the answer's probably no. And so, with that, I'm thrilled to be joined today by Lydia Booher. She's a clinical nurse specialist with us here at Cleveland Clinic, and well-known and well-esteemed for her mentorship of countless nursing students, new nurses, experienced nurses, clinical nurse specialists, you name it. So, Lydia, thank you so much for joining us today.

Lydia Booher:

Thank you for having me.

Carol Pehotsky:

So, I hope you'll get us started with, I know you have lots of fantastic stories about what you've gotten out of mentorship, or to watch your mentees grow, so I hope you'll just get us kicked off with some of your stories, please.

Lydia Booher:

I should start off with my professional mentor. So, I was in America doing my Master's in nursing. I come from India, so this was a new style of education for me. And this one professor was not afraid to call me out and really challenged me to grow. And they were constantly encouraging me to take a mentor if I wanted to grow professionally. I thought, this person is the right person for me because she's not afraid to step on my toes and help me grow.

So, this was established in 2009, and she was an expert in mentorship because she had been a professor for a long time. So, we set some rules and set some goals, and we established a relationship that hasn't stopped since. So, it's been so many years now, and every step of the way she has been part of it. Especially when I became a brand-new CNS - I'd come to Cleveland Clinic main campus, which is such a big setting, and I'd never been in such a setting before. And I [was having] all these new experiences, and I couldn't wrap my head around them. So, I would type up a page of all my experiences and send it to my mentor every month. She would read the whole darn thing and respond in two sentences. She would summarize what I said, and she'd ask me questions. That was her way of helping me grow and think of my experiences. So, since I passed through that stage and I became a CNCNS, now she's holding me accountable in my PhD journey.

Carol Pehotsky:

Oh, my gosh. That's fantastic. You know what? Several things you said resonated with me, including calling me out, right? I think sometimes we think we want a mentor to be like, you are the best! And sometimes, they'll say that, right? But sometimes, I love that piece around accountability. What a gift. And so, how have you returned that kindness to the people that you've mentored?

Lydia Booher:

Most of the time, how you meet people whom you can mentor is when they come to you as CNS students. So, it was my students, like they come to us, and now it's like stern, and they're spending the whole semester with you, and then they're drawing from you. So then, you're like presetting them. But sometimes, they establish a more trusting relationship. It becomes a little bit more long term. So, then what happens is there is a mutual exchange of knowledge that's between the people that I'm mentoring, and they're drawing from me. So, when they're drawing from me, then sometimes that helps me grow. Also, their enthusiasm for nursing, for the CNS role, sort of reminds you how excited you were.

Carol Pehotsky:

Absolutely.

Lydia Booher:

When you were brand new, and you know, you were learning. So, in the process of mentoring them, you are actually growing along with them.

Carol Pehotsky:

That's spot on. That mutual exchange is such a beautiful gift. You almost get as much out of being a mentor as you get out of being a mentee.

Lydia Booher:

Exactly. I always say that mentorship is a two-way street. It's never one way, and it is so important for the mentors to tell that to their mentee, that they're not the only one receiving from that relationship. Actually, we mentors are drawing from the mentees, and we are learning from them as well. So, I think that's very important.

Carol Pehotsky:

And there's really an intentionality there, right? You know, if you're just existing together, we miss out on that deeper reflection that says, we've both gotten something out of this.

Lydia Booher:

Exactly. Also, the mentee may not be an expert in the area that you're guiding them, but they're bringing their life experiences, so you're not an expert, but they're an expert. They're teaching you simultaneously. So, I think I have learned a ton from the people I have mentored.

Carol Pehotsky:

That's wonderful. In our audience we probably have everyone from I'm just starting nursing school to I've been a nurse for 40 years, and I'm looking to still learn. So, can you talk a little bit about the difference between a mentor and a preceptor, especially for our newer nurses or maybe our nursing students?

Lydia Booher:

I think as a preceptor, it's more of a short-term relationship and it has specific goals. And so, people are coming to us, you know, maybe as a clinical nurse and we're going to precept them for a few weeks and then that relationship will stop. But a mentorship involves more of a caring and natural transition. So, you can start off being a preceptor and then become a mentor. But sometimes it's a natural transition because they come to trust you. They see that you could be a role model to them. They see that you're very enthusiastic and have stuff that they can learn from you. So, they may approach you and say, can you teach me about this? You know? So, then it becomes a little bit more of an intern relationship, but there's a lot of trust involved. It's not a transactional relationship; it's deeper, much deeper than a preceptor.

Carol Pehotsky:

Absolutely. And, you know, I've been approached by nurses who've said, oh, so I can't have my preceptor be a mentor? And I think you've highlighted No, no it's not, this has ended, and we can't be friends anymore. It's really that trust is there, and we've accomplished the initial goals of whatever that initial period is, and do we forge on together in a trusting relationship? So, let's say I finished my initial training period, and I learned a lot from my preceptor, but I'm not looking to continue that relationship. So, what should I be looking for in a mentor? And again, we'll start with a new nurse, maybe what she or he should be looking for in a mentor.

Lydia Booher:

Someone who stands apart. Someone who is enthusiastic. Someone who hasn't lost their passion. Someone who finds meaning in work they do; they're not just doing it for the sake of doing it. But they find meaning in it; they're making a difference in what they're doing. Also, someone whom you can trust. Whom you can confide in. Whom you know will be willing to commit to being a mentor, because it's a commitment. They're saying okay, I commit to holding you accountable, to challenge you, to step on your toes to encourage you. You know?

Carol Pehotsky:

Absolutely.

Lydia Booher:

Those kinds of things. So, I think you need to pay attention to all those things.

Carol Pehotsky:

All right. And let's say I'm a little further in my career and maybe feeling like I've lost some of that joy, and I'm thinking that maybe a mentor might help me. Anything different I should be looking for in a mentor if I'm not necessarily looking to change careers or specialties but re-engaging in a different way?

Lydia Booher:

Recently, I was talking to an assistant nurse manager. Yeah, actually to a group of nurses, and I guess when I was talking, I must have come off as very passionate about the topic. You know, it was about nursing and how we can grow as nurses. And she's been a nurse for a long time and an assistant nurse manager for a long time. She said, I need to set up a time with you and meet with you so that you can share this enthusiasm and this passion you have for nursing. I feel like I have become burned out. You know? So sometimes people get energized. Doesn't matter how long you've been in the profession. And sometimes I think the longer you're in the profession, the easier it is for you to build walls to protect yourself from some of the pain and disappointment, but then when you meet somebody who still hasn't lost that passion, you're like, hey, give me some of that! You know?

Carol Pehotsky:

Yeah.

Lydia Booher:

Share that enthusiasm with me. So, it doesn't matter where you are and where the other person is, if you really think that they have something to share with you, it's okay for you to reach out to them and say, hey, I want to grow. I don't want to get burned out.

Carol Pehotsky:

That's fantastic. When you think about, you know, one of the things we'd like to accomplish in this podcast is rekindling that joy or reconnecting to joy when some of us have lost that. Or there's days any of us have lost it. And so really being able to see that in another nurse, I think it's very profound what you said about, you know, the coping mechanisms that we develop as nurses or in healthcare in general. And the things that we see and the things that we're asked to do, being there at the beginning, end of life, it comes with coping mechanisms that sometimes, you know, are hard to mitigate. And so, one of the strategies could be reaching out to somebody else who has energy and excitement and helps us reconnect to why we got into this in the first place.

Lydia Booher:

Yes, absolutely.

Carol Pehotsky:

Fantastic.

Lydia Booher:

I agree.

Carol Pehotsky:

So, let's say I'm on the other end of things. I'm you, and I'm minding my own business. I finished a presentation, and someone came up to me and said, hey, I think you're fantastic. I'd like to be your mentee. What are some questions I should be asking or some things I should be thinking about to make sure from my end of things that it's a good fit?

Lydia Booher:

I would say, what do you want to achieve? What's your goal? What stands out about me as a mentor that you think you can draw from? What is the objective of this relationship? Because, you know, sometimes people get inspired in the moment, but then if they're willing to be a mentee, they have to follow through. It's not just about taking advice and not acting on it. So, what makes me a good mentee is that whatever was shared with me, I'm willing to apply it. So, that's what has helped me grow as a professional and as a person. The same thing is true for the mentee. You can be excited to meet somebody who is just so inspirational, but when you go to them and say, I would like you to be my mentor, you have to state your goals. Do you have any goals? In which areas can I help you? If they don't draw from you in a specific way, then how do you, you know, what do you share with them? So, that's how it puts ownership on the mentee as well. It's not just all on the mentor. So, you sort of get the feeling that, oh, this person is intentional. They really want to grow. They want to draw from me.

Carol Pehotsky:

Well, it is a time commitment from both. And both parties have to be willing to invest that equally, at least, at the very least, to make sure that it's the best it can be. You know, and I think, as you're talking it made me reflect on a scenario where I'm a PACU nurse by trade and I was at a PACU conference and one of my PACU heroes was there, and her poster was right next to mine. And I'm working up the courage to say, you know, maybe, like could we be pen pals? Would you be my remote mentor?

And I worked up the courage because she's just so highly esteemed and she said, no. But, in fairness, it was a beautiful thing because she said I would be so honored. But she was going through something personally, and she said, I cannot give you what you deserve right now. And so, it was this really crystal moment for me about, yeah, I worked up the courage. And she was so gracious to say, I wish I could. I just can't. And may I recommend a few other colleagues in this space that would love to work with you? But I'm not going to be able to give you what you need. And I've taken that with me because you want to, and either way, really be able to invest that time. And if you can't, it's okay to state a boundary that says, let's check back in in a little while, but right now I'm not going to be able to give you what you need.

Lydia Booher:

Oh, wow. You know what? I have to say, and I'm sure it was shocking for you to hear no from her but I'm really proud of what she did.

Carol Pehotsky:

Absolutely.

Lydia Booher:

I mean, she was so honest, and she was still willing to help you.

Carol Pehotsky:

Yes.

Lydia Booher:

And help you, match you with the right mentor. And most of the mentors would not say no, you know?

Carol Pehotsky:

Right.

Lydia Booher:

But then, I think, I really appreciate her for her honesty for saying no to that. Because that shows that she was not in a place to help you.

Carol Pehotsky:

Right. And we're nurses, right? We're doers. So, we want to say yes and then go, oh, no! What have I done?

Lydia Booher:

Exactly.

Carol Pehotsky:

Excellent. Well, any other stories you'd like to share with us? Maybe a mentee that you're particularly proud of, where you think, maybe I had one fingerprint on that.

Lydia Booher:

I think really about the influence we have on each other all the time. All I would say is, mentors come in all shapes and forms. It could be your family member or your parent, your sibling, teacher, your spouse, your children, the latest, newest novice nurse who entered your unit. So, it's not about age. It's not about experience, but if you are willing to grow and learn, you will always find opportunities to grow and learn. And for my mentees, or for myself, I would say the most important thing is humility. You have to say, I am not sufficient on my own. You know, we may fool ourselves into thinking that we know it all, we have it all, but the truth of the fact is we don't know it all, and the closer you come to the mountain you realize how much more knowledge there is out there to learn. And if we want to really succeed and grow in life, we need to say, I don't know enough of that. I need to learn more about it. Whom should I look around and learn from? So, for me, I have learned from my patients.

You know? I have told the story before. I didn't know how to drive, and I had this young, 20-year-old patient whose legs were cut off, amputated. And here I am afraid to get behind the wheel and learn to drive and come to Cleveland main campus from Akron, and here my patient tells me, Lydia, if I can learn to live my life again without two legs, you can get behind that wheel and learn to drive. So, you know what I'm saying? So, having done this, it’s a symbiotic relationship. You know? When we are interacting with human beings, there's always room for us to learn if we have the humility to say, I need to learn more. And I would say that's how I have learned.

Carol Pehotsky:

What a beautiful story. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. Well, now's the part of the podcast where, you know, our listeners have learned so much about you as an expert, we're hoping that they can learn a little bit more about you as a nurse. So, just some fun questions before we, uh, sign off. So, curious, when you're unwinding at the end of the day or on a weekend, what's your go-to? Do you like videos, podcasts, or books? What's your jam?

Lydia Booher:

The latest thing has been listening to leadership podcasts as I'm folding laundry. Or when I'm like, driving to work, I put on Craig Groeschel, John Maxwell, Vince Menzione.

Carol Pehotsky:

Oh, sure.

Lydia Booher:

And they have this podcast, about like 15, 20 minutes long. Sometimes when I'm logged on and walking to the office, I sort of encourage myself. So, then when working with nurses, I can encourage them with what I heard.

Carol Pehotsky:

Yeah, apply right away. I love it.

Lydia Booher:

Yeah.

Carol Pehotsky:

Let’s say you're headed to the floor to help on the bedside. What shoes are you wearing? What's your go-to?

Lydia Booher:

Actually, when I was a bedside nurse, I liked the SAS shoes.

Carol Pehotsky:

All right, yeah.

Lydia Booher:

But right now, it's all about flat. And how comfortable they are. I don't care what brand it is.

Carol Pehotsky:

Outstanding. And if you weren't a nurse, what would your passion career be?

Lydia Booher:

I can't see myself as not being a nurse. I was born to be a nurse.

Carol Pehotsky:

There you go.

Lydia Booher:

This is my calling. So, if I was not a nurse, I think I would be in a job where I'm fighting for human rights.

Carol Pehotsky:

Okay.

Lydia Booher:

Or for justice or something like that.

Carol Pehotsky:

All right. Well, Lydia, I can't thank you enough. Thank you so much for joining us today; we've just learned so much from your conversation with us. Thank you.

Lydia Booher:

Thank you for having me.

Carol Pehotsky:

As always, thanks so much for joining us for today's discussion. Don't miss out! Subscribe to hear new episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, we want to hear from you. Do you have ideas for future podcasts? Or want to share your stories? Email us at nurseessentials@ccf.org. To learn more about nursing at Cleveland Clinic, please check us out at clevelandclinic.org/nursing. Until next time, take care of yourselves and take care of each other.

The information in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute medical or legal advice. Consult your local state boards of nursing for any specific practice questions.