Training Programs Help Military Personnel Skill Up (Part 1)

Podcast Transcript

Dr. James K. Stoller:

Hello, and welcome to MedEd Thread, a Cleveland Clinic Education Institute podcast that explores the latest innovations in medical education and amplifies the tremendous work of our educators across the enterprise.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Hello. Welcome to today's episode of MedEd Thread. I'm your host, Dr. Tony Tizzano, Director of Student and Learner Health here at Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio.

Today's podcast is part one of a two-part series exploring Cleveland Clinic's efforts to optimize career opportunities for our military personnel when returning to civilian life. In a subsequent segment, we'll take an in-depth look at the clinic's program to enhance the Navy's Independent Duty Corpsman.

Today, I'm very pleased to have Andrew Guenther, Director of Military Education within our Education Institute here to join us. Andrew, welcome to the podcast.

Andrew Guenther:

Hey, Tony. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

You bet. Well first of all, I want to thank you for your service. It's a privilege to be able to interview you, and in our subsequent interview as well. But to get started, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, what your educational and military background is, and what brought you to Cleveland Clinic and your role here?

Andrew Guenther:

Sure. So, I was an intel guy with the Marine Corps and then came to Cleveland Clinic about 10 years ago and started off in talent acquisition. Ran the veteran hiring program here for Cleveland Clinic for about six years and have recently joined the Education Institute as the Director of Military Education.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Perfect. And boy, are we glad to have you. I know that there's a long history within the Cleveland Clinic when it's military underpinnings, and I'm sure that we'll talk more about that today.

So, as we look at the many ways, we are working to optimize career opportunities for our military, can you help us frame that topic and just what we're going to talk about today?

Andrew Guenther:

Absolutely. So, let's kind of rewind the clock here a little bit. Let's go back to our founding docs here at Cleveland Clinic. So, we were founded by military doctors, so they wanted to bring that efficiency and collaboration of military medicine to the civilian world.

So, the Cleveland Clinic was born in 1921, right? So, what I'm just trying to do is, how do we continue to support that military mission and continue to support value for our patients? So that being said, we like to kind of put our money where our mouth is, so to speak. So, Cleveland Clinic has allowed me to have the good idea. Barry tapped me on the shoulder a few times, and it helped make it happen. But we've been able to partner directly with the Department of Defense and armed forces for various training programs here at Cleveland Clinic.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Perfect. You know, when we were talking earlier, the thing that struck me right away is not only collaboration, but the military is all about teams and how do teams' function together, what is the interplay between teams. And if there was ever a mantra for the Cleveland Clinic, it's function as a unit.

And I have to think that that came in part from the military. Your thoughts?

Andrew Guenther:

Yeah, absolutely correct. I mean, you know, we are a team of teams here at Cleveland Clinic and I think that's one of the things that makes us really good at what we do, right? In, in taking care of patients.

So absolutely. I agree. I, it comes from those founding docs.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Very well. So, when we talk about military personnel, what branches of the military are included? Who exactly are we talking about?

Andrew Guenther:

Sure. So, we're talking about everybody, which is great. So, we're looking at all branches. Specifically, we've got some programming surrounding the United States Navy. We have a training program with our Independent Duty Corpsman where they come to Cleveland Clinic for a month and the focus is on prolonged field care, building those skill sets, building the knowledge base.

So, we're prepping IDCs for the next fight. They might not have air superiority; they might have to sit on sailors and Marines for longer. So, we want to help build those skill sets and have a positive impact on the down range outcomes for patients.

We're working with the Navy on that. We also have a training partnership that we're gonna kick off on 11 September with the Ohio National Guard. We're gonna take the medical service technicians, and they're gonna observe with us. So, they're gonna be able to check their box, so to speak, with 40 observation hours, which typically takes them almost two years to get, that they have to kind of check off as part of their requirements. They're gonna be able to come to Cleveland Clinic, get those observation hours, get involved with our clinicians and get a little teaching, which is great.

We're also working with a Medal of Honor recipient on a Medal of Honor Recipient Care Plan. So, what we're doing there is, we're just trying to reach out, roll out that red carpet experience for our Medal of Honor recipients, which has been great. So, we've seen three or four of those wonderful people and their families, and we're looking forward to continuing to do more of that.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Absolutely fabulous. So, we're talking active-duty individuals in some of the programs that we're having. But what about veterans, the Guard, Reservists?

Andrew Guenther:

Sure. Yeah, so the IDC program, Independent Duty Corpsman Program with the Navy, those are all gonna be active-duty corpsmen with the Ohio National Guard. These are gonna be supporting the Guard. And we're hoping to expand this programming, you know, over time to different branches, different people, things like that.

So, come one, come all. Let's try to get involved, right? So that's with the Guard side, and then the veteran support side would be the Medal of Honor Recipient Care Plan that we're building. Something else that's kind of cool that the Clinic has is they have the Military Veteran Employee Resource Group. They've got some wonderful chairs and members. They're pushing a lot of support for veteran patients. They've got a lot of great ideas. So, we're gonna see a lot of positive change in that space, thanks to their leadership over there.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Boy, that's really good to hear. You spoke earlier about the Cleveland Clinic being an above-and-beyond employer for the military. What does that mean?

Andrew Guenther:

Sure. So, way back when I worked at the Employer Support of the Guard Reserve in Crystal City, Virginia. And during that time, I was in charge of running the Bosslift program. So, in Employer Support of the Guard Reserve, we can abbreviate that as ESGR, supports the USERRA Act and it also supports employers who employ Reserve and Guard members.

So Bosslifts are taking leaders of those industries out, and maybe we'll put them on a C-17, do a refueling in the air. You know, something like that. So, what they're seeing is, and what employers are seeing, is that when they're on orders, they're not hanging out, high fiving at a barbecue, you know. And just having a weekend off or a week off, right?

They're working They're doing their jobs. And they get to see their employees in action. That being said, and the reason I bring this up, is ESGR has recognized Cleveland Clinic as an above-and-beyond employer. We got that recognition initially back in, I want to say '21. And it was great, especially for me. Because, you know, being a part of that organization, driving that mission forward, being able to come here to Cleveland Clinic and then, you know, go full circle and receive that award has been awesome.

And leadership here at Cleveland Clinic has been very supportive, and that's a great reason why we were recognized with that award.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Excellent. Well, I have to tell you. You know, you mentioned Bosslift and that has a sweet spot for me. When I was medical director at one of our family health centers, you know, I recognized that we gave latitude to any of our reservists to be able to have time, to be able to participate in the military, still be part of the clinic, still receive their salary, so on and so forth.

And they mentioned to me, would I like to participate in Bosslift? I'm like, what's that? And so, I got to go up on a refueling mission.

Andrew Guenther:

Oh, that's outstanding.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

And we left out of Rickenbacker here in this stripped down, I don't know what this plane was. I just know that it had large engines and bare bones except for fuel. It had lots of fuel. And I got to lay in the very tail of the plane and steer the boom a bit. Not when the plane was right there but got to play around with it.

And then we refueled another plane and then a jet. And to have them, I want to say 50 or 60 feet away in the air, is an incredible experience. So, for any of our listeners with the Cleveland Clinic, if you ever have the opportunity to do one of these Bosslifts, I highly recommend it.

So, among these current initiatives, we talk about BUMED, the U.S. Navy Bureau of Medicine and Surgery, and the Independent Corpsman program. Tell us a little bit about that. What inspired that and, and what's its purpose?

Andrew Guenther:

So, when I took the role, program manager of the Hero Experience, Cleveland Clinic's veteran hiring program, when I initially took that seat, I went through the old Rolodex and reached out to a few people and, and made some contact saying, hey, this is what I'm doing now. I hope all is well with you. You know, what can I do to help you with the mission? How can we partner? What are we looking at here?

A few people responded to that call and educated me a little bit on, here's what the simulations at the Pentagon are showing us for the next fight, our next AO, area of operation. Here's what we need.

And the thing that stuck to me was the need for prolonged field care. You know, you want to make sure that if somebody is gonna sacrifice to go over and enlist and serve our country, if something happens to them, you want to make sure that they're gonna get the best care that they can.

So that being here at Cleveland Clinic, that shared mission with Cleveland Clinic and the military and our Independent Duty Corpsmen really drove that forward for me. So, luckily, I partnered with the leadership here at Cleveland Clinic and we were able to push that forward, and we started training the corpsmen in 2019.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

On top of all that, they're getting cutting-edge information and technology to bring to bear. So, I think that's important too. It's not like, oh, this is a secondary, this is just like everything else done at the clinic. If you're doing it here, we're doing the very best we can with the most up-to-date technology and information that we have.

Andrew Guenther:

And, and to your point, and to kind of continue that thought process, when the corpsmen are here, our clinicians are do a great job of saying, "Okay, well what do you actually have in your- in your med bay on that ship?" Or, "What do you have in your kit bag if you're on the ground with the Marines?"

And they try to change or at least introduce the idea of, okay, so this is the patient working with, this is what's going on. Here's what you see in the room. How would you manage this in the field? How would you manage this aboard the ship?

So, we're really trying to meet them where they're at as best we can and discuss the medicine of it. What's best for the patient? What decisions do you make now and how do they have down range effects? How do we make the best decision now? That kind of deal.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So, we personalize this experience the best we can.

Andrew Guenther:

Absolutely.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So, you mentioned the Ohio National Guard observation program. This is actually within the Nursing Institute. Do- am I correct on that?

Andrew Guenther:

Yeah. So that program rolls up through me for like the, the programmatic piece of it, but our Nursing Institute are the people that have stepped up and have really taken charge, and our nurses are gonna be the ones that are gonna be orienting everybody and getting the observation hours with the med service techs.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

And again, you also, I want to go back to these Medal of Honor recipients, and you have a standard operating procedure for individuals who might actually participate in that program. What does that look like?

Andrew Guenther:

So, it gives them a little bit more of a concierge service when they're here. So typically, Medal of Honor recipients are gonna have specific medical needs based on an injury or whatever might have occurred, amongst normal things that all of us have, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, man, my back hurts, I want to go see the doctor. Maybe you have a cough or whatever it is.

What we wanted to do was allow them the opportunity to say what ails you, let's get it looked at, let's give you a second opinion on where you're at now, and then how do we specialize care for you as a person? And the Medal of Honor recipients, it, not only their actions, but it also blows your mind the stuff that people are capable and what these people have done for us and our country, right?

But they're not done serving yet after they do that. You know, they, they're on the road, all of them, like 200 plus days a year. And I might even be underselling that.

This is a way for us to give back, to really say, "Hey, you know what? Thank you. What can we do to help you here?" And, and that's what we're doing, which is great.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So, these men and women actually have an ongoing, active role?

Andrew Guenther:

They do.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

And it sounds very much like our Executive Health Plan, that they've made them privy to. It's what is feels like when you say this.

Andrew Guenther:

You're 100 percent accurate.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Okay. So, when you look at all of this collectively, is this found in other institutions? Is the Cleveland Clinic somewhat unique in their efforts?

Andrew Guenther:

Yeah. I think we're fairly unique in our efforts, because of our ability to teach with the resources that we have. But I also think it's a mindset thing here at Cleveland Clinic. For instance, you know, the overarching topic of this podcast is, how do military members take that experience and plug and play it in the civilian world, right?

So, there's a very simple ethos that you bring and build in the military, and that's mission, team, teammate, self. So, you're at the bottom. It's not about you when you're there. You're doing your job, we got to accomplish the mission, I got to make sure my team's squared away, I got to take care of my teammates, and then I can worry about what I need.

And I think that the Cleveland Clinic and all the caregivers that we have here apply that same ethos. At the end of the day, it's not about you. It's about that patient. Are we caring for patients? Are we putting patients first? Yes. Great, how's my team doing? Where do you need help? How can I add value for you? Great.

Teammates. We've got ERGs, we've got support programs. Our leadership team for managers and up, I think do a wonderful job of taking care of people here.

And then finally, it's, okay, great. How am I doing? You know? But I think when you're, when you're in the care of others and working in their stead and families are trusting you to take care of their loved one and get them out on the other side, how else you gonna do it? You have got to have it.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Absolutely. So, in the military, mission, country first. At the Cleveland Clinic, patients first.

Andrew Guenther:

Correct.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Just two parallel sorts of ways of thinking.

So, when we look toward the future and what else we might do, we mentioned a couple of things. One was the Naval Medical Research Unit. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Andrew Guenther:

Sure. So, we've had a lot of great conversations and, and ongoing conversations with NAMRU, which is, as you mentioned, Naval Medical Research Unit. Specifically, we've had a lot of contact with the one in Dayton, and we're also initiating contact with the NAMRU group in San Antonio.

We've got some wonderful technologies and processes here that we've developed at Cleveland Clinic, and we think they would be valuable for both veterans and active duty. So, we're trying to press that field forward and partner with them a little bit. And there's more to come on that, but I think there's gonna be some great breakthroughs here soon.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So, this is around critical care transport. I mean, these are some really sophisticated technologies that you're bringing into the field.

Andrew Guenther:

Correct, yeah. And thank you for bringing that up. The Navy and Air Force are moving towards the V-22 Osprey, which is a tilt rotor wing capable of vertical takeoff and landing air frame, that they want to use that for medevacs going forward. So, they've done it before, but it's not been commonplace.

So, their issue is they need a needs assessment, they need to figure out what does the inside looks like, how do we lay out that fuselage, how could we make it, you know, change for that mission for a flight of opportunity to get somebody out there or not?

So, what we're offering is, hey, you know, we have some great people over in critical care transport on our side. Let's partner up and share some knowledge there. Let's help each other out.

And again, at the end of the day, why are we doing that? Both of us care about our patients.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So, this Osprey aircraft, just for our listeners, I mean, this thing takes off kind of like a helicopter.

Andrew Guenther:

Correct.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Then rotates its engines and now it's flying like a plane. So, it is outstanding. And it can go to many, many places, similar to a helicopter?

Andrew Guenther:

Yes. You can typically fly a little faster and farther, but you still have that vertical takeoff and landing capability of the V-22.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Excellent. So, kind of closer to home, we've got the USS Cleveland Legacy Foundation.

Andrew Guenther:

Oh, yeah. Love those guys.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So, tell us about that.

Andrew Guenther:

So, the USS Cleveland Legacy Foundation is a nonprofit that started here in Cleveland to support the USS Cleveland Littoral Class combat ship that is being built now. It should be commissioned in the next year or so. Cleveland Clinic has been involved in supporting the USS Cleveland Legacy Foundation and the sailors that will be aboard that ship when it's commissioned.

Care packages, we're putting a little touch of Cleveland onto the ship, things like that. I'm still trying to get like a magnet that says Cleveland Clinic and put it over the med base sign. I'll probably get in trouble if I try.

But you know what, you got to, you got to try, right?

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah.

Andrew Guenther:

So, we'll, we'll see what happens. But they've got a wonderful mission and they're similar to ours in the fact that we care about our city, we care about Cleveland, and we are a hospital that was founded by doctors. So, we want to kind of give back and be a part of that if we can.

And there's been four iterations of the USS Cleveland o- over time. And that organization is working with us and other community partners to bring that ship back home as kind of a living museum when she's done with service. So that's something that we want to partner with and bring back to Cleveland.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

That's exciting. There's a lot of local pride, and that'll be another piece of that puzzle.

Andrew Guenther:

Absolutely.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So, this is in a shipyard in Wisconsin.

Andrew Guenther:

Correct.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

And then is going to find its way for its christening, or how will that all occur?

Andrew Guenther:

Yes. They'll likely go do their sea trials first. They'll come back to the Port of Cleveland. We'll do the commissioning here, and then I think she's gonna be down in Mayport, Florida, where's she's gonna stay.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Okay.

Andrew Guenther:

In that shipyard down there.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So, among these other future endeavors, there's this military employee resource group.

Andrew Guenther:

Yes.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

That's being put together for prior military personnel. What, what is that all about?

Andrew Guenther:

You know it, it's great. I mentioned them earlier. And what's cool about the Military Veteran Employee Resource Group, it's one of the ERGs, employee resource groups, that we have here at Cleveland Clinic. But what's great is it gives military veterans a chance to kind of come together for that camaraderie.

And I had the pleasure of chairing that particular ERG for five years myself. And the new chairs are doing a great job. I mean they're; they're blowing it out of the water. What I like most about it is we have a lot of members that aren't veterans, but they have a passion for it. They have a passion for helping, have a passion for the military or want to add some value.

And those are among some of our most active members that show up, they put in their time, and this is all volunteer. These are just good people here at Cleveland Clinic stepping up to support others around them.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Excellent. So, I'm sure there are things I've missed or comments you might like to make. What would you add?

Andrew Guenther:

I think that the ethos idea is what really brings us all together. I think one of the things that makes veterans successful in their civilian careers here with Cleveland Clinic, again, is applying that ethos that we laid out earlier.

So, I think what we need to do is make sure that we keep an eye on what we are doing and, most importantly, why are we doing it? And I think that'll drive everything down there. But I, you know, these, all of these ideas, all of these partnerships, all of the things that we're gonna accomplish and have accomplished, all come from that place. And I think that's kind of what makes us, us.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah. I can't help but be proud of that.

So, Dr. Stoller always talks about, if you had a magic wand, what would you add? What would you do?

Andrew Guenther:

If I could just maybe talk to more people and show the value and show who we are at Cleveland Clinic, I think people would want to become partners with us because our reputation typically pushes us quite a bit. But we'd love to just be able to show the world what we do and how we do it.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Fabulous. Well thank you so much, Andrew. This has been a great podcast. To our listeners, thank you very much for joining and we look forward to seeing you on our next podcast, where we will be joined by a Naval Chief Petty Officer and explore his journey as an Independent Duty Corpsman preceptor. Have a wonderful day.

Andrew Guenther:

Thank you.

Dr. James K. Stoller:

This concludes this episode of MedEd Thread, a Cleveland Clinic Education Institute podcast. Be sure to subscribe to hear new episodes via iTunes, Google Play, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, thanks for listening to MedEd Thread and please join us again soon.