The Power of Mentorship

Podcast Transcript

Dr. James K. Stoller:

Hello and welcome to MedEd Thread, a Cleveland Clinic Education Institute podcast that explores the latest innovations in medical education and amplifies the tremendous work of our educators across the enterprise.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Hello, welcome to today's episode of MedEd Thread, an Education Institute podcast, exploring the growing importance of mentoring in an academic medical center. I'm your host, Dr. Tony Tizzano, Director of Student and Learner Health here at Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland, Ohio. Today I am very pleased to have Ja'Net Colbert, project manager at the Mentoring Resource Center within Cleveland Clinic's, Mendel Global Leadership and Learning Institute, and Elizabeth Pugel, Senior Learning partner, also at our mentoring Resource Center within our Mendel Global Leadership and Learning Institute here to join us.

Ja'Net and Elizabeth, welcome to the podcast. In today's segment, we will explore the importance of mentoring of residents in an academic medical center as it relates to a trainee's professional development, improving quality and ultimately outcomes of graduate medical education. Ja'Net and Elizabeth, to get started, please tell us a little bit about yourselves, your educational background, what brought each of you to Cleveland and your respective roles here at Cleveland Clinic.

Ja'Net Colbert:

Sure. So thank you Tony for having us. So again, my name is Ja'Net Colbert. I have been with the Cleveland Clinic for about 10 and a half years now. I started out in neurology and I made my way about six years ago to Mendel Global Leadership and Learning Institute, where I serve as project manager, managing caregiver development programs.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Excellent. And Elizabeth?

Elizabeth Pugel:

Thanks Tony. I am a native Clevelander and have spent the last seven years facilitating leadership development at Cleveland Clinic. I have a background in consulting leadership development and effective teams and the incredible team and brilliant creative minds and the Global Leadership and Learning Institute is what brought me here to Cleveland Clinic. Both my undergrad and masters are in communication management.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Fabulous. So, Elizabeth, to get started, you know, what are some of the key principles and practices around mentoring?

Elizabeth Pugel:

That's a, a great place to start, Tony. When we look at mentoring, you know, we really wanna think about successful mentoring programs and we focus on our programs being around three core principles, connection, communication, and commitment. The three C's is what we refer to them as. So successful mentoring focuses on the growth needs of the mentee and is important that the mentee is the one leading the relationship. It's important that both the mentee and mentor build rapport and trust. They create a mutual relationship that develops over time. They are both accountable and have equal responsibility in the relationship and they have open and honest dialogue, which helps pave the way for effective guidance.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah, I can see where that all makes perfect sense. But Ja'Net, how do you go about putting together a robust group of mentors? How do you pick them out?

Ja'Net Colbert:

Sure. So you wanna make sure that you are selecting a group of mentors that have diverse skills and diverse backgrounds so that you ultimately build a network of mentors. You wanna make sure that you are looking at mentors that maybe have different religions or come from different nationalities, come from different places in the enterprise so that you are getting a diverse set of different mentors.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

You know, one of the things you mentioned to me earlier was being multi-generational, and I look at how each kind of generation of student or learner really has some different parts and pieces to think about. Could, could you expand upon that a little bit?

Elizabeth Pugel:

I'll take the generation question. So, you know, what we're finding is having five separate generations within the workforce today that different generations have different needs and different generations also have different experiences. One of the biggest difference that people really need to draw upon is communication. And so when people are mentoring, you know, really thinking about a diverse range of communication channels, including email messaging apps, social media, video conferencing, to really cater to the preferences of different generations.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Okay. I could see that. I could see that millennials, for example, being very electronically driven.

Elizabeth Pugel:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

And you know, I like the face-to-face conversation.

Elizabeth Pugel:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

But they're all okay. They're just differences, they accomplish the same thing. Ja'Net, how's the COVID pandemic impacted your work and altered perhaps the mentoring landscape?

Ja'Net Colbert:

Yeah, it's impacted the way that we connect in the landscape tremendously. We've been able to enhance the connectivity with platforms like Zoom and Microsoft Teams, expanding its capabilities and functions. We've been able to do more. I mean with that we've been able to develop national and international relationships since you don't have to be face-to-face. So we're able to connect through different channels like social media. So you really have an enhanced research opportunity with a larger pool of mentors that you can choose from with these different capabilities that COVID has allowed us to have.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So it sounds like in some ways we've actually expanded our reach-

Ja'Net Colbert:

Absolutely.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

... where where initially we all thought, "Gosh, how are we gonna do this?" But then we got used to Zoom, we got used to Microsoft Teams and now I can almost not imagine being without it. It allows me to participate in things I, I never had the opportunity to do. So Elizabeth, how might opportunities for leadership be enhanced via mentor mentee relationships?

Elizabeth Pugel:

Yeah, mentorship is important. It really provides a safe space for future leaders to learn, make mistakes and grow. It also helps the mentee explore different areas of interest and be matched with that opportunity. Mentorship also helps budding leaders identify weaknesses and strengths as well as foster the development of new skills that are necessary to excel in management roles. There's also an opportunity that helps for continuous learning, both strengthening soft skill and increases job proficiency and it also helps build strong relationships.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Okay. So I wonder, you know, in your experience, you look at someone who you're thinking they might be a leader, is leadership something you groom ahead of time or is leadership, the mantle of leadership more or less thrust upon you and then all of a sudden you head off to your folks looking for tools to help me be a better leader?

Elizabeth Pugel:

I think it can be a combination of both depending on which direction one has gone into, especially in the medical field, not everybody thinks that they're going to go into a leadership or management type role. So there's different opportunities depending on when that role enters your life as far as developing those skill sets.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Okay, very good. So Ja'Net, are there different sorts of mentor mentee relationships?

Ja'Net Colbert:

Absolutely. So it all depends on what the mentee is looking for. Some relationships are long term, you know, you meet this person, you have a good connection and they, you stay in contact with the person over the course of, you know, the relationship. Some of them are one and done. You, you go for a specific goal or a specific skillset that you're hoping to gain from that individual and you get that in that initial meeting and then you don't, no longer need to connect with that person. Other times you meet with one individual and they may connect you to someone else and so you end up building a network of different mentors. So there are different reasons you may have a, a m- mentor, somebody you may go to for professional reasons, someone you may go to for personal reasons. So again, it just depends on what the individual needs at that point in time.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah, it strikes me that, you know, just reflecting on my own career trajectory, that I've always had mentors in there somewhere somehow, and well I've drawn on some of them for decades, going back to them with a what about this? So what about that? What do you think, how does this look? So, you know, fabulous work. For either of you, what might an initial mentor encounter look like and how should the mentee prepare?

Ja'Net Colbert:

I would say first and foremost, make sure that you have clear expectations. When you go into that mentor relationship, you wanna begin with an end in mind and also if there's an opportunity to give your mentor a heads-up on what it is that you're looking for so that they can come into that relationship prepared. You know, do some homework before the meeting. Make sure that you understand who you're meeting with, be respectful of their time. If you're meeting at a particular time, make sure you show up on time and stay in contact, meet regularly and always follow up and say thank you. I think a thank you goes a long way.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Thank you and a smile, for sure. So Elizabeth, how do residents or fellows go about engaging in a mentoring program? Where do they get get started?

Elizabeth Pugel:

So I think there's a, a couple different ways that mentees can find mentors. You know, in today's environment it's a lot of who you know or who you want to know. So I always, you know, recommend to people looking for a mentor of whose job excites you, who are you interested in talking with? Is there somebody that's been on your radar? Is there a professor, a colleague, you know, somebody that you want to learn more about and that you feel that could help your career as well?

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Well that makes a lot of sense. And so, you know, along the same lines, but I guess the opposite side of things, Ja'Net, are there times and circumstances where a mentoring program is recommended to a resident or fellow?

Ja'Net Colbert:

Sure. If there is a specific skill set that someone may be looking for, you know, that someone else that's a mentor in the program can provide, there's absolutely times where someone may be prompted to go into mentoring or a mentoring relationship with a specific person may be suggested.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Well that makes perfect sense, doesn't it? And Elizabeth, in what ways are mentors trained and or supported? Because there is a specific skill set.

Elizabeth Pugel:

There is and I think that'll vary by the person that you're mentoring as well. You know, I think the biggest success story that we see from mentors is to pull from their own experiences, what went well, where were some air of opportunities. Vulnerability is really critical with having a mentee also providing open feedback. A lot of times a mentee is coming to you because they are seeking improvement in their lives. So be open and honest with the mentee as far as feedback goes for what they're looking to develop.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So I guess that's where that trust that you talked about earlier, establishing that sense of trust and psychological safety really becomes important.

Elizabeth Pugel:

Yep.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So Ja'Net, considering the importance of these efforts and there's no question about that and you've done a lot of fabulous work, I'm sure, how do you track the successes that you've had?

Ja'Net Colbert:

So we really rely on our mentees to drive the relationship and ultimately report back on the successes that they're having. Our mentees are responsible for, you know, letting us know how the relationship is going and if they wanna continue to meet with the individual.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Okay. And you know, I look at all that you've done, there's no question about that. What's on the horizon? As you look at what might lie in the future, what are hopeful things that, that you could see coming that you'd like to build into the program?

Elizabeth Pugel:

Well I think, you know, from a mentoring program perspective, from a corporate perspective, there's about 84% of Fortune 500 companies now offer some type of formal mentoring program. And so there's really three components of mentoring that we see in the future. First is group mentoring. So in this setting, you know, a single experienced mentor may guide a cohort of newcomers. This is especially prevalent in induction programs or when introducing new methodologies to a team. The advantage here is that there's a certain comradery and collective learning it fosters, allowing mentees to learn from both their mentor and from their peers.

We also have reverse mentoring. This is a relatively newer concept and we talked about having five different generations in the workplace earlier. This is really where we see, you know, different generations, younger em- employees mentoring more senior staff, especially in areas like digital technology, different trends, emerging workplace practices. And reverse mentoring emphasizes the idea that expertise isn't just a factor of age or the traditional experience. And then third, we're seeing more mentoring from a departmental cross mentoring perspective. And this style involves employees from different departments mentoring each other. It aims to provide a broader understanding of the organization and promotes interdepartmental collaboration.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So lots of new things on the horizon. You know, the reverse mentoring thing, it uh, I think about reverse learning and-

Elizabeth Pugel:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

... I think of my children, my son's an electrical engineer. If I was any better with a computer I'd, I'd have a tail. And he always tells me when I have a computer question, "Dad, it's complicated. You really don't have to understand. You just have to believe." And so that's the length and breadth of our, of our conversations. For both of you, what, what is the difference between coaching and mentoring?

Elizabeth Pugel:

That's a, a great question and I think there's a lot of confusion around coaching and mentoring. So thank you for letting us decipher that. So coaching and mentoring in of themselves are both distinct, yet they're interconnected and both are aimed at guiding individuals to reach their potential. So when we think about a typical coach or coaching practice, it involves a structured goal-oriented process where a coach provides guidance, feedback, and support to facilitate personal professional growth. Whereas mentoring, on the other hand, is a relationship where a mentor often with more experience imparts wisdom, knowledge, and advice to help a mentee develop skills and next steps. Ja'Net?

Ja'Net Colbert:

Yeah, so definitely completely agree with everything you've said Elizabeth. Coaches are gonna do more of questioning to get you to the solution that you're looking for, whereas a mentor may come right out and tell you or, or guide you to what it is that you're looking to achieve. So those are two very simple ways to say, you know, coaches are gonna more so ask questions and mentors multiple will be able to just come, come out and tell you.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Ja'Net, are there times when the coaching or mentoring process may occur with groups and not specifically with individuals?

Ja'Net Colbert:

Yes, there are many times where group coaching and mentoring will come into practice. When I think about some of the programs that we have, we often do group coaching in different ways and then also group mentoring. Especially when we think about trying to reach audiences that are international, sometimes that is the best way to get them to be a part of a larger cohort with a group mentoring or a group coaching session.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So to kind of get us all on the same page getting, going. Well, this has been wonderful and I want to thank you both so much, Ja'Net and Elizabeth. This has been a very enlightening episode of MedEd Thread. To our listeners, thank you very much for joining and we look forward to seeing you on our next podcast. Have a wonderful day.

Elizabeth Pugel:

Thank you.

Dr. James K. Stoller:

This concludes this episode of MedEd Thread, a Cleveland Clinic Education Institute podcast. Be sure to subscribe to hear new episodes via iTunes, Google Play, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, thanks for listening to MedEd Thread and please join us again soon.