Pathways to Progress: Nurturing Future Healthcare Leaders

Podcast Transcript

Dr. James K. Stoller:

Hello and welcome to MedEd Thread, a Cleveland Clinic Education Institute podcast that explores the latest innovations in medical education and amplifies the tremendous work of our educators across the enterprise.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Hello, welcome to today's episode of MedEd Thread, an Education Institute podcast exploring Cleveland Clinic Student Pathways Pipeline Expansion Program. I'm your host Dr. Tony Tizzano, director of student and learner health here at Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio. Today I'm very pleased to have Devin Patterson, program manager in the Education Institute Center for Youth and College Education here to join us. Devin, welcome to the podcast.

Devin Patterson:

Thank you so much.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Devin, to get started, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself, what brought you to Cleveland, your role here at Cleveland Clinic?

Devin Patterson:

I am a native Clevelander, so born and raised here. Then I went off to college but stayed in Ohio. I went to Miami University in Oxford, the original Miami University.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

I know it well.

Devin Patterson:

And so, I've worked in different education spaces all the way from pre-K all the way up to college advising. And so, I've always had a focus on providing resources to students that may not otherwise have them or know about them. So, when I was originally brought back to Cleveland, I was in North Carolina at the time, to work at Cleveland Clinic, it was to manage outreach efforts. When K-12 education lived in community health. And so now I am in the Center for Youth and College Education, managing programs that offer opportunities to learn about health care careers to students, specifically the Student Pathways Program.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Fabulous, and I know from experience that that part of the clinic is just fabulous, and there's been a lot of growth in the last couple of years. So in today's segment, we wanna explore the Cleveland Clinic's Center for Youth and College Education's efforts to provide a way for Northeastern Ohio high school juniors and seniors to explore the world of opportunity within healthcare and to try and grow our talent pipeline in the process. Can you help us, Devin, frame what exactly that means for the audience?

Devin Patterson:

Sure. So, so many of our students in the middle school or high school space see healthcare as doctor and nurse. It's what's in their immediate view. It's what they're familiar with. There are so many students, though, that don't realize that we have this huge network of positions and opportunity within healthcare that aren't that. So that includes positions where students can get a certificate or an associate's degree, level education, and still pursue a valuable, fulfilling career.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Sure. With an organization as large as ours, in this enterprise, there is almost every imaginable job description to fuel and keep going in the Cleveland Clinic tradition.

Devin Patterson:

I actually went to an event in Lorain County that was a career fair at one of their vocational schools. I mean, there were students coming up to me asking, "Do you have an IT department?" As big as Cleveland Clinic is and how much technology plays a part in the work that we do. These were students that were like, "Can I work at Cleveland Clinic and do cybersecurity or IT?" And I'm like, "Yes, we have all of the things in our 70,000 plus caregiver portfolio."

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Well, you bet, Devin. And all the way up to our quantum computing technology that we're embracing with IBM. I mean, there's just no limit. So, this is exciting. What does this program look like and how is it designed?

Devin Patterson:

So, the program is a six-week hybrid experience for students. So, five of those weeks are virtual education sessions where the students are being introduced to the different content areas and caregivers who are currently working in those various fields. Then in the fourth week of those six weeks, they have an on-site experience at one of our hospitals. Right now, that could be coming on main campus to our simulation center, going to Lutheran, Avon, or Marymount for a four-hour face-to-face experience to get more of that direct exposure to the program.

In addition to the clinical and non-clinical career content, we do have talent acquisition who comes in and works with the students on professional skills, like resume writing and interviewing, and how we interview at Cleveland Clinic, which not everyone might be used to.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

That's great. And it's, it's important to have those skills coming in, I would imagine. So, are there also non-clinical areas that would be embraced by this program as well?

Devin Patterson:

Definitely. So that's one of the unique things about Student Pathways is that students are exposed to both clinical and non-clinical because that goes back to those assumptions that students make about Cleveland Clinic is that, "If I am working at Cleveland Clinic, I have to be patient-facing or I have to be in a clinical role." And you and I know that's not true because here I am, right, working in education at Cleveland Clinic. So we do expose students to things like sterile processing, which is an area where we are in great need of caregivers. We also do more customer service or patient-centered things like health unit coordinator or patient service specialist, patient transport, and then we also focus on information technology careers as well.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Boy, there's just so much to consider. And one of the things that struck me, you talked about certificate programs, is, you know, we have this phlebotomy program.

You could literally come out of high school, go to a 12-week certificate program and have one-on-one patient contact as a phlebotomist, which is a sweet spot for me because it's what I did, you know, in college. But, you know, where else can you go in that amount of time and be patient-facing one-on-one? And my understanding is in some of these programs, once completed, the clinic might even pay the tuition if you come to work for us. Is that true?

Devin Patterson:

Yes. So, it depends on the program, and some of those thing's kind of change. So, I won't speak out of turn, but we definitely have programs that offer a tuition reimbursement option or that are specifically, um, going to place the students. If they complete their program, they have the opportunity to be placed with a very high percentage placement rate. The director for the phlebotomy program, Jerry Hicks, is actually one of our speakers for our clinical session next week.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Excellent. I'm gonna have to drop in on that. So, what's required of students to participate in this program?

Devin Patterson:

Because Student Pathways is an exploratory program, there's not a lot of prerequisites as far as coursework or GPA, as with some of our internship programs, because this is really that first step into getting to know healthcare. However, the students do have to be 11th or 12th grade students. The students must be from Northeast Ohio. Right now, that is primarily because of the on-site experience where the students have the opportunity to observe.

So, if a student was out of our service area, to expect them to get on campus to one of our hospitals might not be realistic. And so, they have to have an interest in knowing and learning more about these healthcare careers to the extent that they're going to engage with the program. We want students who are interested in learning, who are gonna show up and engage in the sessions each week.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

At the end of this, is there any kind of measuring of the students' progress or, or what they've taken home?

Devin Patterson:

So, some of the success measurements for the program include knowledge gain. So, students are doing pre and post-test before each session. So, we want to make sure we're going in with specific objectives. We want to know what they knew before the session, and then we want to gauge the learning that happened within the session by giving them a post-assessment. We are also tracking students who go from our programs and into our hiring pipeline in the future. So, it could be a senior that goes directly into employment. It could be someone who goes into one of our shadowing programs or internship. So how long are we keeping these students into our pipeline, and does it lead to higher for the student?

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Great. So, when we think about this, how many cohorts have thus far gone through the program, and how many can go each year?

Devin Patterson:

Mm-hmm. So, the program in its current iteration, this will be cohort two, technically, of the six-week structure that we put in place in CICI. We have two cohorts per year. So we have a fall cohort, which actually just started this Wednesday, so we're in the full swing of Student Pathway season. And then we have a spring cohort that happens January, February time.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Are there different application times for each of these or?

Devin Patterson:

So, there's one application per school year. So, the application that was launched in the fall was the application for the 2023-2024 school year. And students were able to indicate which session they wanted to participate in or both. So, some students just said, "Place me, fall or spring, doesn't matter." Then we have some students who preferred one over the other, sometimes because of their extracurricular commitments and things like that.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

And are they asking for a specific specialty as well, an area of endeavor, or is it broader than that?

Devin Patterson:

Not for Student Pathways. So, for our internship program, that's when you'll select a certain area of interest or study, and then you're paired with a mentor in that specific area, and you work in that area over those six weeks. With Student Pathways, it's meant to give the students a broad view of everything. And at some level, students may not know what they're interested in or just need exposure. I've had students who said, like you mentioned, phlebotomy. They didn't kind of know what that entailed really, what the possibilities were, if that was where their entry point was. And then I've had students after the program say, "Hey, please connect me to the phlebotomy school. I would really like to pursue this opportunity."

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

That's great. And you're right, you don't know what's there until you've actually been immersed in it to a certain degree. When my college advisor mentioned the phlebotomy, because his wife headed up a lab, I said, "Well, what's that?" And he goes, "Oh, you know, you draw blood." And I'd only ever had my finger pricked. I thought, "I can do that."

I had no idea what I was, and of course, then it was just a week of training, and I was the only phlebotomist in the hospital. So, we do a much better job. There's a lot of moving parts and pieces to this. How is it funded?

Devin Patterson:

So, we do have operating dollars within the center, but one of the awesome things that's happened over this past school year was receiving the Education Institute grant that allowed us to expand our reach of Student Pathways. So, the program was in existence prior to Student Pathways coming over to CICI, but the goal was to reassess, revamp the program, and make it accessible to more students, both by number and by geography. So initially, the students all came from the footprint around South Pointe Hospital, so mostly the eastern suburbs, with the addition, of course, of CMSD and other school districts.

Now we have students all the way out to Lorain County and beyond, with an increase, actually, this year in our CMSD participants as well, when we were taking attendance on Wednesday and the students were following up on their icebreaker and sharing out. Part of that was sharing their school and their name. And even though I had the roster, of course, there were a lot of folks like, "Oh, yeah, I'm at John Hay, Early College and I'm at Bard." And so that was exciting for me because we have done some intentional recruiting and sharing of information with educators from these districts, and it seems like it's sticking. So that's exciting.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So, the reach is growing. No two ways about that. So, if I were interested in this program and wanted to be a facilitator, you know, what is required and how do you get there?

Devin Patterson:

So, one of the ways you can participate with not only Student Pathways but CICI programming is to become a registered caregiver in our speakers bureau. So, there's a form on our website if you're a caregiver who says, "Hey, I'd love to influence some young folks or I'd love to do some education, though I can't do it consistently all the time. Maybe I can go speak at a school. Maybe I can come in and give a presentation." You can sign up there and we pull speakers and facilitators from that list as we need them.

So, it may be something within our department, but it may be a school request that you're fulfilling. Also, by building relationships with the different departments, I reach out to the department directors and other folks like that to say, "Hey, would you have a caregiver in mind who might be good for this particular opportunity?" We do work directly with our hospital presidents and things like that who want to see their caregivers involved in this type of work. So, they also help sometimes in reaching out to their staff.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Very good. So, what are some of the non-clinical examples that students might pursue? I know you mentioned IT, but perhaps there are some more.

Devin Patterson:

So, one that I think is important, definitely high demand. The department is very excited to get students involved, and that is sterile processing. It's something that students aren't necessarily aware of career-wise, but a very important part of the work we do. If we don't have sterile instruments, all of our surgeries and procedures can't go forward. And in talking to some of our presenters and things like that from sterile processing.

If you're someone who likes routines and kind of methods, or if you're not wanting to work directly patient-facing, that is a career that could be good for someone who has that type of aptitude, which is also something we try to talk to the students about, not just focusing so much on one position, but focusing on the skill sets that they have, what they're good at, the type of work that they want to do. That broadens their scope a bit. Sometimes it's a title for them, but it's like, "What are the skills? What are you interested in doing?" And that opens it up to the students a lot. So, sterile processing has definitely been one, and their department has been really good about providing caregivers whenever we need them.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

And in terms of other business-related areas, such as clerical support, are there opportunities there as well?

Devin Patterson:

Yeah, so we have had health unit coordinators come in and those are the folks that are kind of organizing what's going on on the floor from the patient perspective. And so, we've had those folks come in, we've had students shadow our health unit coordinators and get more of a feel for what they do. I think it's a good starting point, learning how to work with people, talk to people, be organized, all of those things, because those are things that happen in program management and things like that, too. So, it could be a starting place, could be a patient service specialist, and then you could be a coordinator, then you could be a manager. So, we also try to show them a trajectory and growth points so they know that you may start one place and keep growing and Cleveland Clinic is a place where you can continue to grow.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

That is absolutely the truth. You may start at one end, and you may take an entirely different tact over the course of time. And I think the fact that we help with education and so on and so forth along the way really makes this a very dynamic place to begin a career and who knows where you'll end up. So outside of all this, you know, we are looking at these various clinical career paths and so forth, but there's also the nuts and bolts of getting there and you mentioned that there are employment skills that you talk about too. What are some of those?

Devin Patterson:

So, students need to know how to talk about themselves, right? And talk about their skill sets. One of the things that we do in our session leading up to resume writing, is we do an affirmation activity. Because that can be kind of foreign to just speak well of yourself, even though I feel like these are things that students should get in practice of early. Being able to affirm their different skill sets and who they are even as people.

And so, we do a little bit of affirmation practice or training. And then we talk about, "Okay, so now that you're comfortable talking about yourself, how can we communicate these skills and strengths in a professional way, both verbally and written?" So, we go over the different resume structures, and what should be there. Some of these students haven't necessarily had hourly jobs yet, some of them may be in extracurricular activities or you may be babysitting or whatever it is. How do we pull out those skills so that you can communicate these things to an employer, so they are seen as valuable?

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Is there also along the same line, Devin, an opportunity to have like a mock interview?

Devin Patterson:

Yes, students do get the opportunity to have a mock interview with someone from the CICI team or someone from the talent acquisition team, many of the students say that this is their favorite part of the program because it does help get some of those jitters out that they may have, whether it's for a actual job interview. But some of these students also have to have college interviews and things like that going on. And so, no matter your path, you need to be able to speak to people in a professional manner. You need to be able to share your different skill sets. You need to know how to show up, even if it is virtually, looking professional, speaking, taking the time to get your thoughts together.

Sometimes, even with students, it's okay when they learn that they can take a pause during an interview, because sometimes silence feels awkward to students because they're used to going and talking, or a face-to-face interview, just as a generational difference, many of them communicate via text a lot and things like that. So certain language that would be appropriate there is not appropriate to say to a hiring manager or things like that.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Sure.

Devin Patterson:

So, we do talk about that. In addition to the actual interview piece, how do you follow up? What does a professional email look like? Sending that thank you within 24 hours, because those little things do make a difference.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Absolutely.

Devin Patterson:

And we know that from people who have interviewed, and also people who have been hired. Keith Evans from talent acquisition, who works with us in our program, is actually the person who called and offered me my job at Cleveland Clinic. So, things like that come full circle.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah, I think you said a lot there, and I think students begin to realize that, you know, you're presenting yourself for the first time and you have one chance to make a first impression whether it be written or if you get to the point where you have an interview and maintaining that eye contact and going on throughout that and being comfortable. So, I can see that the mock process has got to be something that's a favorite of theirs. You know we have a culture in terms of mission, vision, and core values. Is there time and opportunity devoted to that so that they get a sense of what the Cleveland Clinic really is all about?

Devin Patterson:

Our mission, vision, and values are actually weaved throughout the program from the moment the student applies. So, they actually answer a question about Cleveland Clinic values. They get to choose one of our values, whether it's empathy, innovation, teamwork. They choose a value, let us know which resonates most with them, and they give us an example of how they use that value in their own lives. So, from the front end, we're saying, "This is the type of organization that we are. If you're interested in getting to know more about our organization, or you feel like you resonate with this organization, let's start there."

Then each session, we weave in different pieces, and some of the collateral that we have as an organization, like our empathy video, that's often very eye-opening for the students. Where the, you know, in the video, we have different caregivers and patients who are just walking through the hospital, and you have one person you're getting on the elevator with, and you don't know that this is the day their husband passed, or the doctor you're speaking to is in the middle of a divorce but has to show up and do, you know, what they need to do to provide you the best care.

So just being aware of things like that and being able to show empathy and lead with heart as we say, right? So, all of those things are important to the culture we present to patients, but also the culture that we present to our other caregivers, because that's just as important.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah, that's a great example. I, I love that video. It's, it's a number of years old now, but I've seen it many times and it doesn't lose its impact. And, you know, if you don't come away with a little feeling in your stomach or, or a wet corner of the eye, you have to think twice. I understand that there are some experiential sorts of things, some interactive activities that students might engage in. What, what are some of those?

Devin Patterson:

So, as we built out the program and re-evaluated curriculum and how we can engage the students even though it is a virtual opportunity. That was very important. So, we have some activity boxes that we're sending out to the students with materials so they can do activities in real time while we're having a session. So, we're talking about MedLab and phlebotomy. Let's build a blood model using Karo syrup and candy and beans and all the things.

And we're talking about respiratory therapy. Let's simulate someone with a breathing issue so you can see what that might look like for someone who has asthma. And then let's talk about how respiratory therapists help in the treatment of these patients. So, in radiology, we're doing some kind of guessing of the images because you never know what sometimes radiologists find in folks' bodies, which can be interesting to see for students, just something to get them engaged in talking and questioning, because that's where the learning happens.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Fabulous. You mentioned radiology, and, you know, you think of experiences you've had. In medical school, they showed us an X-ray of the chest, and there were all these little circular objects on one side. And of course, nobody had any idea what it was, here when they had removed one lung so that there wouldn't be a shift, they filled the chest cavity with sterilized ping-pong balls.

So, you know, how do you guess on that? So lots of fun. So, when you debrief students then, you get some feedback and there's the quiz that you mentioned. You know, what kind of feedback have you been getting?

Devin Patterson:

So far, we've been really pleased with the feedback we've gotten in this new iteration of the program. Students seemed very engaged. Their favorite part is always interacting with our caregivers, and we think that's a very important piece, right, connecting them to the people who are actually doing the work. We don't have to say, "Oh, read this. We heard about this." These are the people that are doing it every single day, and they're the content experts. They're the people that love this work, and you can see it, feel it, hear it when they're in front of the students. The mock interviewing, as I said, is also a very important part that students enjoy. They've asked for even more time with the caregivers or more interaction, and so we're working on that as well.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Excellent. So, you look down the road, Devin, what do you see on the horizon, or what are your hopes and dreams for this program?

Devin Patterson:

Hopefully, I do see Student Pathways expanding even more. And while that can seem a bit overwhelming, it also can seem exciting. Taking even more geographical restrictions off. We've had students or parents inquire all the way from Canada. You know, we have a presence there, or even Florida or different areas want to know if they can participate in Student Pathways.

And with the virtual piece, that's not so hard, but really wanting them to have some level of on-site, that makes it a bit more complicated, right? Because getting students on, making sure they're on-boarded, making sure they're staffing at whatever location we may have to extend to, those types of things, based on the staffing needs and things like that at our different hospitals.

Also, sometimes the schedule of the students, it doesn't always align with the schedule of when our caregivers are on site and things like that. Typically, it's best to do things for students on Saturdays. Sometimes that can be hard for staffing. But working through those things, I think we'll continue to expand geographically and even serve even more students. With the initial cohort, again, it was a different iteration of the program as far as how long the program was, who had served, things like that. We went from six students completing to 36 in the same amount of time.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So fabulous growth. I wonder, as we come out of COVID and so forth, and people are more comfortable with virtual platforms. Is there a thought of maybe incorporating these virtual platforms to expand the reach beyond where people might easily get?

Devin Patterson:

Yeah, I think the virtual piece is where we make an easier adjustment, I think. Even in the virtual space, we do try to keep the number of students kind of at a sweet spot because you do want students to be able to engage at some level, we want them to kind of get to know each other because we do teach them about starting to network and build their network and things like that. And so we do want the students for it to not be so big that you don't know the name of any other (laughs) students in your cohort.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah.

Devin Patterson:

And so being able to build that out virtually is a bit easier than when we get to week four and we have to do that on-site piece. So, taking 30 students and then flipping that to 60 in one cohort, that's a lot more site placement.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Boy, I could see that.

Devin Patterson:

So.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

And having them there one-on-one and, and the conversations that occur around the drinking fountain and at lunch and so forth, you know, has its own value. Well, Devin, do you think there are some things that I maybe missed or that you'd like to add?

Devin Patterson:

I will say that what's really important in the work is just giving students more options and more opportunities, letting them know what's out there so they can make informed decisions about their next steps, about their future, letting them know that there's more than one way to get to whatever their particular goal is, which is also why we have the caregivers, when they come in, share their specific career journeys, because the students get to see, "Oh, you didn't have your whole life figured out at 17, and you're not failing, and you're, and you're successful."

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Right.

Devin Patterson:

We have people that majored in dance that are now nurse managers and different things like that. There's more than one way to these avenues. And I think that's important for students in 11th and 12th grade, who are under an immense amount of pressure at a young age to figure things out. And so we want to provide them the tools and the steps to make informed decisions. And I think we also wanna make sure that we're reaching students who are most in need of this information. And I think we take it serious to kind of answer that call, to make sure that we're getting the word out. And so students aren't missed who need this opportunity.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Well, I think we can all be grateful for the work you do, because at the end of the day, you know, it's helping to build a workforce that really reflects the tapestry of our communities. And everyone wants to be cared for by individuals who are familiar to them. And so this outreach is, is really important.

Devin Patterson:

That's something else in one of the videos that we show around Cleveland Clinic culture that the students notice is that Cleveland Clinic, you can see yourself in someone. We have caregivers of all nationalities, all races, all gender expressions, and so that's also important, is being able to see yourself, and that within the community, Cleveland Clinic is just not an ivory tower to some people that they can't break into, but, "This is a space that wants me, that cares for me, that will develop me." And I think that's important in maintaining that workforce is that these students see Cleveland Clinic as a viable place to work, not just healthcare, but specifically Cleveland Clinic.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Absolutely, it's a great place to work and we work hard to that end. Well, thank you so much, Devin. This has been a fabulous episode of MedEd Thread. To our listeners, thank you much for joining and we look forward to seeing you on our next podcast. Have a wonderful day.

Dr. James K. Stoller:

This concludes this episode of MedEd Thread, a Cleveland Clinic Education Institute podcast. Be sure to subscribe to hear new episodes via iTunes, Google Play, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, thanks for listening to MedEd Thread, and please join us again soon.