Exploring Healthcare Careers: Inside Cleveland Clinic’s Shadowing Program

Podcast Transcript

Dr. James K. Stoller:

Hello and welcome to MedEd Thread, a Cleveland Clinic Education Institute podcast that explores the latest innovations in medical education and amplifies the tremendous work of our educators across the enterprise. 

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Hello. Welcome to today's episode of MedEd Thread, an education institute podcast exploring the Student Shadowing Program at Cleveland Clinic Center for Youth and College Education, which we'll refer to as CYCE as we go on. I'm your host, Dr. Tony Tizzano, Director of Student and Learner Health here at Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio. Today, I'm very pleased to have Melvonna Williams, Program Manager for CYCE Shadowing Program, here to join us. Melvonna, welcome to today's podcast. 

Melvonna Williams:

Thank you, Dr. Tizzano, it is a pleasure to be here, and I'm super excited to talk about the Student Shadowing Program today. 

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Excellent. And please call me Tony. To get us started, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, what brought you to Cleveland, your educational background, and your role here at Cleveland Clinic?

Melvonna Williams:

Well, to start off, I am a Cleveland native, born and raised. I received my bachelor's degree and my MBA from Capella University, and I've been at the clinic going on nine years. It will be nine years December of this year. So coming up soon. What brought me to Cleveland Clinic? Really just I've always had a background working in healthcare. I used to work at the VA Hospital for five years, so from there I just transferred over to Cleveland Clinic, and I've been here ever since.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Fabulous. So we benefit from all those perspectives, from the things you did before. So in today's segment, we'll focus on the clinic's rapidly growing shadowing program that provides students the opportunity for an up close view and inspiring look at a wide range of healthcare careers by shadowing one of our many caregiver sponsors. Can you help us frame what that looks like? Who might want to become involved? What the opportunity is? Who they have to know to get in?

Melvonna Williams:

Absolutely. So the Student Shadowing Program is designed for high school students age 16 and over, and our college adult learners who are looking for an opportunity to understand what their career path may look like in the future or currently, if they're currently pursuing something in their degree. We have our caregivers that donate their time. They volunteer their time in order to provide these opportunities. And our students, all they have to do is submit an application. There's a couple other things involved I know we'll get into, but they submit an application and, and they're able to receive those shadowing experiences. And there is a cap number of how many hours they are allowed to receive experiences. F- so for example, our college adult learners are allowed to receive up to 40 hours of shadowing per year, and our high school students are able to receive up to 20 hours of shadowing per year.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So that really is sufficient to give someone a perspective like, hey, you know, I might like to know more about this, uh, this is somewhat inspiring. So this sounds like a really exciting opportunity for students. What was the impetus for this program?

Melvonna Williams:

Well, as most of us know, or maybe not know, well, working at the clinic, shadowing is not new, but the structure of shadowing is new. So the clinic needed a program that would help provide more of that accountability piece of our students that are coming on site, which really sparked the beginning of it, and then also to remove the barrier of students needing to know someone or the next door neighbor, in order to come into the clinic. I mean, I know it's nice to have like those, those perks of being able to slide through the door, but some students do not have that advantage. And the purpose of the program is to help remove those barriers so all individuals can come in and shadow at the Cleveland Clinic.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So I could see myself looking at health care for the first time, and not having a clue how beneficial it would have been to be able to slip in somewhere and watch, and I did have to know someone to even get into a small community hospital to get any kind of sense of what was in store for me. So I think that that's really important. What about growing our pipeline for skills and, and for our needs as an organization? Do you see this as something that helps to spirit that along as well?

Melvonna Williams:

Absolutely. I really see it as the engagement that the students have with the caregiver, so they have a really great experience with the caregiver that can increase their chances of wanting to come back and work with us one day, especially if, for example, their shadowing in nursing, I know that's a high demand at the clinic or pathology or anywhere of that nature. If the student has a great experience here, and they, they will remember that. That is going to set an impression for them in their mind as they're looking for jobs in the future, and that could potentially lead them back to wanting to apply and work here at the clinic.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Sure, are there any costs involved that someone has to pay to, to participate?

Melvonna Williams:

It's completely free.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Fabulous. So, you know, I think getting involved really helps give you a more realistic perspective of what might happen or what you might need to do. And, you know, you can get that from school in our primary education, high school, but really seeing and interfacing with individuals who are doing that work, it's hard to replace that kind of exposure. What, what are your thoughts along those lines? 

Melvonna Williams:

I, I agree. I think it is hard to replace that type of exposure. It's very unique, because they're able to come in, they're able to see firsthand what that role entails. While it is completely hands off, it's shadowing. They're not touching anything, and they do not have any access to systems. They are able to see a real immersive view of what's taking place in the clinical or non-clinical area. So I do think it's a really unique opportunity for our students to be able to see exactly what their career path could look like.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So you have an interest. I'm looking it over. I'm the appropriate age, 16 to adult college students and beyond, you know, where do you go to get specific information?

Melvonna Williams:

So in order for students to sign up, we have a great SEO, which is our search engine optimization. So if they search Cleveland Clinic C- Center for Youth and College Education on our website, they are able to see that right at the top of the page. And we have our own landing page for Student Shadowing, so they can go in. And once they go into our website, they can create an account. It's a free account. And then it lists all of our offerings for shadowing. We use a system called Clinician Nexus, that houses all of our shadowing offerings, and within there, they can just search and start applying for it. There is an onboarding component that they will have to go through, but after they successfully complete onboarding, they are able to receive those experiences.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So perfect. So there's something online, you can get a broader perspective of what we see, what has been the feedback so far for the individuals who've participated?

Melvonna Williams:

I can say 80% of our survey results from students, it is optional for them, but the majority of them like to voice their opinion on a program. And around 80% of those results are positive. And the 20% that's not, it's more so around they don't necessarily want to do the onboarding piece, which I can understand, but some things, you know, we can't get away from. But most of our students love it. They are really able to understand the career they're going into, or it gives them the opportunity to change their career early on, if they really see like, Oh, this is not for me, I thought it was something a little bit different. And we have students have said that, like they, they went into OBGYN and they realized that's not the field they really want to be in. So it allowed them the opportunity to change courses a little bit sooner versus, you can say, wasting money on all those classes they have to pay for. And yeah.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah. I, and I agree. You know, education is expensive, and sometimes this is im- just as important to know what you don't want to do as what you might want to do, and getting that realistic firsthand experience with someone who's a seasoned caregiver in an area, has to be valuable. So some healthcare professions educational programs have observation requirements as part of the application process. Is there a way that the shadowing program might help satisfy their needs?

Melvonna Williams:

It can help satisfy their needs. Now, while the program that we designed is an elective, so we do not sign off on any type of shadowing hours, but our caregivers who become shadowing sponsors are absolutely allowed to sign off on hours if their program needs it. For example, physical therapy does require hours for some students in order to apply to their program. We cannot sign off on hours as the program team, but we have had our shadowing sponsors who have gladly signed off on hours for the students. So it can be used to satisfy some of those needs, the requirements for the programs, if it's needed. It just comes from the caregiver, if they are willing to provide the letter for that.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So there's some latitude, some flexibility? 

Melvonna Williams:

Yes.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So over the course of these shadowing experiences, you know, you begin to develop a relationship with the sponsor, become a mentor on occasion. 

Melvonna Williams:

They can. That, that could be a bonus, actually, if they become a mentor, tat is not the expectation that we place on our shadowing sponsors, but if they have a great experience, and there is any opportunity down the line for that sponsor and that caregiver to have some type of mentorship relationship, then that's absolutely a possibility. Our hope is that the students will use that opportunity not just a shadow, but to also network, because they're also surrounded by other caregivers as they're shadowing. So they have an opportunity to talk to them as well, and that's a great networking experience for them, if they utilize it.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Boy, that's a fabulous opportunity to be able to network. So I come on board, I'm interested in physical therapy, I begin, and I realize not my cup of tea. Can I change horses or mix it up midstream during the program?

Melvonna Williams:

Yes, they can. So within the allowed hours per year, our students are able to receive up to three shadowing experiences. So if they start in physical therapy and they find, oh, this isn't for me, and as long as they did not use all of their 40 hours, or their 20 hours, they are able to apply to another shadowing experience in a completely different area. So they're able to do three experiences again within those allowed hours.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Now, are these mostly clinical areas, or are there some other opportunities.

Melvonna Williams:

We have nonclinical as well. So shadowing is for both clinical and non-clinical areas. We do need more non-clinical areas. So anyone listening, I invite you to join in. For example, like IT, we would love to have shadowing sponsors for IT. 

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So how do they get started?

Melvonna Williams:

So it's very easy. We, we created the process very simple for our sponsors. So the way that you can get started is you complete a MyLearning module, and it's called Student Shadowing. If you type that in, it will pop right up for you. It's about 15 minutes, maybe less, and it really just teaches you about the program. It goes over the policies, and then at the end of that module, you complete a sponsor request form. And what that request form does, it allows our team to add your shadowing offering into the platform so students can be able to apply. I know sometimes it could be a little scary for our shadowing sponsors, like they don't want the floodgates to open and every student is applying. There is a way for us to monitor that, and m- that's one of the questions that is asked within a request form so we can know how many students you're comfortable with.

Our sponsors are never stuck for a certain amount of time. They are able to take students according to their calendar, how their calendar works. So if they can't do the full 40 hours, that's perfectly fine. They can just offer 20 hours. If they can only do a month or half a year, they just have to communicate that with us. We try to make it again, very flexible, because we don't want it to feel too burdensome for our sponsors. We want them to enjoy it and have a great experience as well as our students.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Sure. There's nothing like having students. I, I think it's a great opportunity. It's, it's a bit of a responsibility, but you make this easy so you allow it to fit what you have available to offer. And I think that's an important point. So how many students thus far have been accepted in the program or in this past year, for example?

Melvonna Williams:

So just to give you just a little bit more background, last year, we ended the year with 739 students accepted into the program. And then this year, I pulled the numbers for last month, and it was a little over 530 students, and we are expecting to exceed that 730 number this year, which I'm super excited about, because it, to me, is a testament of just how well that the program is working, and more and more sponsors are continuing to sign up to offer more experiences for students.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Excellent. Well, it is an exciting program. Is there competition for these slots, or if you wanna do it, is there a good likelihood that you're gonna get in?

Melvonna Williams:

The majority of our students are able to receive a shadowing experience. I would hate to say it's competition, it's more so what's available. So for example, we are lacking in a few areas that we do need shadowing sponsors in. And because of that, some students, for example, they may wanna shadow in the legal department, but we do not have currently a legal shadowing sponsor, so we may not be able to provide it. It's not necessarily competition. We just need more inventory of our shadowing experiences. Just about all of our students that apply, are able to receive ex- an experience as long as they complete all of the requirements for the program.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Great. So that just is a call for more help. And I-

Melvonna Williams:

It is.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

... I think there is all kinds of opportunities. So, you know, you mentioned the networking that can occur. And have you seen persons head off into a career path from what you've offered so far in the shadowing, or is it too early?

Melvonna Williams:

I think right now it may be a little too early. I do know for our physical therapy, we've had students, I knew without a doubt that they were applying to school. They were going through everything, they just needed to complete hours. So I can say for that, that it, it really was helpful for them. But as far as anything else, 'cause we asked that question in our surveys, and our students don't always tell us what they did with the shadowing experience, or outside of it, was a great experience, and it really helped them to understand what they wanted to do going forward.

But they don't all the time provide us like the nitty-gritty details of I'm coming back or I applied to this program. So we do have... we're working on to cross reference students that are coming back and applying to other programs within a Center for Youth and College Education department. So we do have a system in place to cross reference that. But as far as shadowing, I will say, if anything, the majority of students, if they are, are probably going to, like, our internship programs, just to explore that a little bit more, to see what they can do.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah, so maybe down the road, Melvonna, you can, you know, query persons a year afterwards, or two or four or five years after. Where are you now? It'd be curious to look at that kind of information. And who knows? Maybe those individuals will become persons who can help, you know, with this program as well.

Melvonna Williams:

Absolutely.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So as you look at the future and you think of all that you've accomplished thus far, what's the next step for the program?

Melvonna Williams:

The next step for the program is really to continue expanding those offerings because the demand is there. We have the students. We need the caregivers. So just expanding it, not just for main campus. We already have the shadowing program in Florida. They run a program there. We have the shadowing program in Nevada. I would love to see it with all of our locations, so that way we can share that one Cleveland Clinic mindset and process and be able to streamline even more so these experiences for students. 

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

That's great. And I think that's part of the Cleveland Clinic philosophy is systemness, and how can we offer the same thing everywhere you go and have the same expectation, because our caregivers move around, patients move around, and to be able to have the same thing available in all those locations would be wonderful. So, Melvonna, is there anything that I didn't ask or didn't discuss that you feel is important for our listeners to know?

Melvonna Williams:

I will say, I, I love using the old school phrase that it takes a village. I truly believe that. And it does take a village to run this program. I am not a expert in being a doctor. I'm not an expert in IT or any other other areas. So our caregivers offer valuable experiences. And what our caregivers do is truly incredible, and it would be great to be able to offer every area to our students. So when I say it takes a village, that's really a call and inviting our caregivers to come in and join a shadowing family, 'cause we would love to have you. Our students would love to be able to benefit from you and what our caregivers offer, it's very valuable and it's needed. I would love to see our family of shadow sponsors grow even more so. And lastly, I would love to just put our shadowing email out there so our caregivers, or even students, can contact us at studentshadowing@ccf.org.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Perfect. Yeah, and I'm sure as charismatic as you are and enthusiastic as you are, it's not lost upon people who are listening, but the students and caregivers who are willing to participate, I think you do a fabulous job, and should be very proud of your work. 

Melvonna Williams:

Thank you. 

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Well, thank you so much, Melvonna, this has been a wonderfully insightful podcast to our listeners. Thank you very much for joining, and we look forward to you joining on our next MedEd Thread podcast. Have a wonderful day.

Dr. James K. Stoller:

This concludes this episode of MedEd Thread, a Cleveland Clinic Education Institute podcast. Be sure to subscribe to hear new episodes via iTunes, Google Play, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, thanks for listening to MedEd Thread and please join us again soon.