High-Intensity Interval Training: A HIIT for Everyone with Katie Lawton, MEd

Podcast Transcript

John Horton:

Hello and welcome to another Health Essentials Podcast. I'm John Horton, your host.

High-intensity interval training, or HIIT, sounds pretty intimidating, especially if you're not a workout warrior, but HIIT workouts are for everyone and they're really good for those of us who are older or sporting a body type that isn't exactly fantastic. So how can you get past the fear of jumping into HIIT? That's what we're going to talk about today with exercise physiologist Katie Lawton. She is one of the many trusted experts at Cleveland Clinic who pop into our weekly podcast to offer tips on living healthier. So, with that, please pardon the pun, let's hit it.

Welcome to the podcast, Katie. So great to have you on.

Katie Lawton:

Well, thanks for having me. It's been a while.

John Horton:

It has, and you and I've talked about a lot of fitness topics over the years, and the thing I always love is how you make exercise feel so approachable. I mean, the reality is, a lot of people get scared of the idea of starting a workout routine. So, I mean, how can folks get past that fear?

Katie Lawton:

I really like to try and find things that people like to do. If it's not something that you're not going to like to do, you're not going to really care or make the time to necessarily do it. Starting easy, I think, is also, or short, if you want to even think of it that way, five, 10 minutes at a time. And then, I think as you get better, you can increase time or intensity as you want to or see fit or as you feel more able to.

John Horton:

Well, today we're going to raise the intensity level a little bit because we are talking about high-intensity interval training or HIIT. Can you kind of walk us through what exactly that is?

Katie Lawton:

I think it's a pretty broad term. I think, for the most part, the word "high" can sometimes intimidate people as well. I mean, you could even think of it as going from low to moderate intensity, but I think it's just some way of varying intensity of cardiovascular exercise. And it can involve, even if you want to do it on treadmill, if you want to do it running, if you want to do it with bodyweight exercises, so there's various different forms that you can kind of do it within, but it's varying intensities of going from either low to moderate intensity and moderate intensity - holding that for a period of time and then dropping back down or even vice versa. You can go from moderate to all-out high intensity and then, come back down to moderate intensity.

John Horton:

Well, and I think kind of what you said at the beginning about how people set their own bar, when you think high intensity, you think like this intense just crazy workout, but the reality is, what's high for everybody is a little bit different.

Katie Lawton:

Very relative, absolutely.

John Horton:

So, when you do HIIT workouts, how long do those typically last?

Katie Lawton:

I mean, you can probably do anything from five minutes to, I think it's hard for people to do a HIIT workout for more than an hour. Again, depending on how long your rest breaks are or your moderate intensity is, but yeah, I mean, it can vary in time. I don't usually see them going longer than an hour.

John Horton:

And it sounds like that's on the higher end.

Katie Lawton:

I mean, I would say, yeah, you'd have to be pretty fit to be able to sustain something like that. Now granted, again, it also depends on what your rest time is or what your moderate intensity is for or how long you're essentially holding the high intensity for. So, I mean, like I said, "HIIT" is a very broad term, but it's just varying intensities during your workouts.

John Horton:

Well, let's talk about what kind of activities are, I guess, HIIT-able and it seems like they're mostly kind of aerobic sort of activity. So, walk us through the things that usually you do within a HIIT workout.

Katie Lawton:

I mean, if you want to think about a Tabata workout - so 20 seconds of exercise with 10-second rest - that's kind of one example that most people use, that's a little bit more timed. So, you work really hard for those 20 seconds and then you take a 10-second rest. So that would be something that you would probably do more of like a HIIT workout.

John Horton:

What sort of stuff do you do within that then? Because usually, it's like aerobic activity.

Katie Lawton:

Yeah, you want to throw in burpees, you want to throw in sprints, you want to throw in rowing, you can throw in biking. I mean, jump rope, mountain climbers, step-ups, lunges. Those are generally more of the aerobic type of movements during exercise that would create your heart to increase for a period of time.

John Horton:

And the idea with that is then, you do that sort of, you're on maybe a treadmill or a rowing machine or a Peloton bike, something like that you go really hard for a set amount of time, maybe a minute or two minutes, three minutes, whatever you set, and then you kind of dial it down, right?

Katie Lawton:

Right. And for some people - I don't want to intimidate people - again, when we talk about really hard, so we want to talk about increasing intensity for a period of time as well. So, it could mean, again, increasing more than the intensity that you were doing before. So again, yes, for some people, it is going to be hitting it really hard; for some people, it's just going to be increasing the intensity just a little bit more than what you had already previously been doing, whether it was kind of resting and then now we're going to pick up the intensity a little bit or going from a one to three on the zero to 10 scale to a four to six, you know what I mean? Somewhere in those ranges. Or if you want to hit a 10 or nine, you can do that as well.

John Horton:

It sounds like it's very personal. So, you kind of set it where you want to do it and then, you can kind of adjust and raise it up as you feel comfortable.

Katie Lawton:

Absolutely. You have to think about what your goal of the workout is. Is it to influence more on the cardiovascular side? Is it just to get moving? So, I think the goal of the workout also needs to be considered when you're also looking at what you're going to be doing that day.

John Horton:

What would different goals be with that? Are you talking whether it's just aerobics or whether you're looking for strength or endurance - or where does the goal formation fit?

Katie Lawton:

Yeah, or do you need to do both your strength and your cardio for that day? Is it one of those workouts where you just have a quick moment to do something and that you haven't really done any strength in a couple of days, and you haven't done cardio in a couple of days? Do we need to kind of compare the two together? Or is it one of those things where you might be running a distance race, and you need to incorporate more intervals or a little bit higher intensity to improve your cardiovascular performance into your workout? So yeah, it can be either or.

John Horton:

With straight strength training, how can you work that into or kind of modify that into a HIIT workout?

Katie Lawton:

I mean, you can add dumbbells. So, if you add squats with some dumbbells, sometimes, even bodyweight squats are just enough for people to increase strength, depending on how many repetitions you're also going to get in, too. You can use kettlebells. Kettlebells are actually a really good source I think for adding in some cardio into some strength as well. Because swings, kettlebell snatches, kettlebell cleans - those are the more complex movements - but they're actually very much cardiovascular-based as much as they are strength.

John Horton:

They are. And I know when I've done it. You always think of strength training as just as it's not something that's going to get you out of breath, but you start doing those in sets, and by the time you're done, you are huffing and puffing.

Katie Lawton:

And so, depending on how much weight you're using, I mean, step-ups can be something else, lunges, those are usually movements that I find that will actually really increase people's heart rates when they're actually doing those types of movements as well.

John Horton:

Now, I think as we talked about right at the start, the idea of a high-intensity workout can be a little scary for people. So, if you're kind of starting out and if you're not in top fitness form, I think a spot which covers a lot of us, how can you safely start HIIT and make it where it's kind of enjoyable and your kind of can progress into it?

Katie Lawton:

So of course, obviously, we need to talk to a doctor, and make sure it's safe for you to get into any further cardiovascular exercise, especially some kind of a cardiologist or your primary care. Just making sure that it's safe for us to get into some cardiovascular exercise.

But for the most part, I mean, you could even start it from a walk to a light jog or if you want to even do a walk to a faster pace walk, doing it for short distances, driveway to driveway, or if you give yourself a goal when you're walking outside, giving yourself a goal to say, "I'm going to try and jog to this light post." Sometimes, that's actually just enough for some people to ramp things up a little bit for them.

John Horton:

And then, you can slowly, as you feel more comfortable, start expanding that a little bit. I know it's that old cliche, you have to walk before you run. It sounds like it's very true when you start talking about this sort of workout.

Katie Lawton:

And then, usually, what you would do is also try and increase the amount of time that you're holding that long distance for or that increase in intensity for. You increase that amount of time that you're holding it for. And then, ultimately, too, we want to try and look at increasing the overall duration of the entire workout itself as well, as you're also getting more cardiovascular fit.

John Horton:

What about when people have some existing health issues? Because I know that can be a concern for a lot of people. If you have maybe a little bit of a heart condition or you have some arthritis or anything else - are there some accommodations, you should make when you do it or how should you start that program then?

Katie Lawton:

Yeah, depending on where your arthritis is, that's going to depend on the type of equipment or the mode of exercise that you're generally going to do. Running - most people will generally kind of stay away from running. Maybe it's elliptical, maybe it's biking, maybe it's swimming. With any type of cardiovascular concerns, a stress test, I mean, is probably going to be one thing that we're going to have to look at first, maybe even a stress echo to see if we can even, what heart rate zones we need to try and steer away from that are kind of where you start to have more heart irregularities that we need to be secure of, or making sure your blood pressure is under control. Those are some other things that we also have to really make sure that those things are a little bit more monitored at times, too.

John Horton:

Yeah, it sounds like if you do have some of these existing health issues, definitely talk with your healthcare provider ahead of time and get a plan in place as to how you're going to start your program and the sort of intensity level you're going to do it at.

Katie Lawton:

Correct.

John Horton:

When you start looking at doing that, what kind of payoff can you get by doing a HIIT workout? Like, what kind of benefits will people see?

Katie Lawton:

Cardiovascular performance, I mean, and then, generally, that will kind of lead to some other things. Ideally, diet is a huge factor in a lot of things, but cholesterol, blood pressure, some blood sugar - those are all things that we generally see improvements in. Again, but on the other hand, consistency. So, you have to be doing it consistently enough for us to also make sure we see some of these results. If you're just throwing it in there on occasion, you're not going to really necessarily see the impact health-wise. But like I said, diet is another factor in a lot of it. So, I usually say you cannot exercise a bad diet, so no matter if we throw exercise into the mix, I can't promise that these are going to make ultimate changes, but ideally, if we kind of combine the two, we should ultimately see some changes to those factors. And weight loss, but again, that's also a lot of diet based as well.

John Horton:

How many days a week should you try to work a HIIT workout in? Is it something where you're looking at it like two, three, four? How often should you do it?

Katie Lawton:

So, it depends on, again, how intense we're physically working, too. Usually when we get into those ultimate, when we talk about HIIT and people going all out - a 10 out of 10 - once a week is really what I recommend is when if you're physically getting to your complete max because it takes a lot longer for us to recover from those type of workouts. If you're doing a light to moderate within those ranges, you could do those seven days a week if you really wanted to. So, I guess that just kind of depends on the intensities to truly, which we are kind of performing the HIIT workouts as well.

John Horton:

How much should you let discomfort be your guide with that? Because I know that's one of the things that scares people. You don't really want to hurt that much. You want to hurt just enough to feel good. So where should you draw the line or how should you pay attention to that?

Katie Lawton:

Yeah, that's a great question because otherwise, too, I don't want it to completely scare you away from doing exercise altogether. I mean, again, the goal is to keep it consistent. I think it depends on where you ultimately want your overall goal to be as far as your health and fitness, I guess is the other aspect, too.

If you want to be an athlete, an elite athlete, yeah, we have to actually get into those really uncomfortable levels. If you're just looking for general overall health, yeah, you probably are going to have to get into some of those uncomfortable zones or doing things that you don't necessarily like to do at times. But it shouldn't be all the time, I don't think. But again, I want you to do something that is comfortable, but that's going to benefit you overall. So yeah, I mean, I think there are times that we're going to have to go into those parts where it's uncomfortable.

John Horton:

Just feeling a little tired.

Katie Lawton:

Yeah, I mean, cardiovascular-wise, yeah. Now again, making sure that we're talking about getting into any intensity that we shouldn't be getting into, but more or less, I think that it should feel a little uncomfortable.

John Horton:

One of the things we always try to do on the podcast, Katie, is kind of to offer people tips that they can use once they finish watching or listening. So, give us a couple of things we can look forward to starting a HIIT workout program.

Katie Lawton:

One thing if you're going to be doing a HIIT workout at home, I like to use a lot of apps and websites and those types of things that are kind of guided for people to work out at home and to kind of encourage us to just press play and start a workout potentially. Right now, granted, I guess there's a lot more involved in that, but it is a lot harder when we're trying to come up with it and do it on our own. Whereas, if we can just press play on a video, it is a lot easier for us to push through or to actually continue with the workout.

John Horton:

And will those help you with timing, too? Will that help with timing, too? I know we talked, sometimes, maybe you do 20 seconds on and 40 seconds of more of a rest or a downshift a little bit on your workout.

Katie Lawton:

Or if you have only 20 minutes to do a workout, so you can find a workout and you can see at the end of the video or how long it should take you by the end and it says 20 minutes. Well, there's your 20-minute workout. So, I do think that if you're in a tight schedule or if you're just really not sure what to do, sometimes, that's generally kind of a good avenue for some people to look into for at-home workouts especially.

John Horton:

What else do you have? What other tips can you throw out there?

Katie Lawton:

Accountability partners, those are always one of my big ones.

John Horton:

The buddy system.

Katie Lawton:

Scheduling the exercise, the buddy system, absolutely. I have a lot of people that are much more successful, I find, if they have a friend, a family member or if you want to think of them like personal trainers, it's a time and place to be somewhere. So, I think that that is generally where scheduling conflicts or scheduling over exercise becomes a lot harder when you have someone to actually work out with.

John Horton:

How important is it to build rest days into your routine?

Katie Lawton:

Again, it just depends on the intensity of the workouts, but especially when we get into those heavier intensity, yes, we do require more rest. If we're talking about light to moderate exercise, you can technically do that every day. With strength training, depending on the muscle groups that you're working out, it is going to be more imperative for you to take more rest days between muscle groups, but it doesn't mean, if you do strength one day, doesn't mean we have to take a rest the next day. That's where we can probably do more moderate intensity. So, it depends. Again, programming is going to make a big difference in some of it. And depending on where you are in your, if you want to talk about training or depending on how long you've been doing it for, if you've just started, if you've been doing this for a really long time, there are some variables in some of that, too.

John Horton:

And this is something I always struggle with, but how important is it to kind of add a little warmup routine in? I mean, can you just kind jump into a HIIT workout or should you do a little stretching or moving around first just to warm everything up?

Katie Lawton:

I am the warmup queen.

John Horton:

You would disapprove of how I do half of my stuff then.

Katie Lawton:

Probably. I usually take my patients through a pretty lengthy warmup for the most part, and to the point where a lot of them think it's part of the workout. Actually, one of them today was like, "Does this count as part of the workout?" And I was like, "No, this is actually just the warmup." No, I spent about 10, 15 minutes, especially more before strength. It could probably be a little bit less before running, as in your case. But yeah, before a strength workout, I can spend about 10, 15 minutes doing a warmup. And the importance of it, too, I think, is just helping me get into the workout a little bit more. I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off.

John Horton:

No, no, it gets you moving. Yeah, gets you into that groove.

Katie Lawton:

Yeah, yep.

John Horton:

You had mentioned earlier about, that one of the really important things is picking something that you like to do, and it seems to me that HIIT is very, it's a flexible sort of program and that you can work in so many different activities or movements or just ways to, I guess, exercise. So, should you really focus on picking the things that I guess will make you want to do it?

Katie Lawton:

I mean, not necessarily. Again, we talked about that comfortability level being kind of a factor in it, too, and wherever your weakest point is, sometimes that's where we should actually be training a little bit more. So, is it into those medium intensities? Is it heavy intensities? Yeah, I mean, you should be thinking about adding some of that in there, but again, that's why you would probably go see a personal trainer if that was something you wanted to start including because they're going to be the ones to force you to do it. Whereas, if you're doing it on your own, you're probably not going to program that in there. And I will say I am guilty of that as well at times when I'm doing my home workouts.

John Horton:

I think we all are. There are those things that you're just like, “Ugh, I know I should do this, but I just don't want to.” So that would describe pretty much every core workout I think I've ever started trying to do.

Katie Lawton:

Well, and I'm assuming, too, it's not why, I mean, I don't know if you swim, but I'm assuming you run, you choose to run instead of going swimming because some people swim, it just seems so daunting, but is it a bad thing? No.

John Horton:

Well, before we say our goodbyes, Katie, and start planning our future workouts — because we should all be ready to go after this — is there anything that we missed or anything you want to add on the topic of HIIT?

Katie Lawton:

Making sure that you have a doctor's clearance to do it, and if you have any questions, either contact an exercise physiologist or contact one of your doctors — generally, really good sources to determine whether it's safe and what forms of exercise are generally pretty safe for you to do as well.

John Horton:

And then, it sounds like once you get going on it, just stay positive and keep at it and just watch how you progress.

Katie Lawton:

Absolutely. I think usually once people start to see the progression, that's when you do tend to really see and get motivated by it probably a little bit more. Sometimes, even logging it or keeping track of it — your distance, duration — that's where also I see people getting really excited about, “Oh, look where I was and look where I am today.” I mean, I think that's also a lot of fun to watch, too.

John Horton:

Great advice as always. So, thank you so much for joining us today and I look forward to having you back.

Katie Lawton:

Thanks for having me.

John Horton:

Don't be scared off by the idea of doing high-intensity exercise. Regular HIIT workouts offer enormous benefits no matter your age or health status. So, if you'll allow me to go into full cheerleader mode for a moment, know this: You can do it. Until next time, be well.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for listening to Health Essentials, brought to you by Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland Clinic Children's. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or visit clevelandclinic.org/hepodcast. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace the advice of your own physician.