Resident Update: Summer in the CLE

Podcast Transcript

Paul Bryson: Welcome to Head and Neck Innovations, a Cleveland Clinic podcast for medical professionals exploring the latest innovations, discoveries, and surgical advances in otolaryngology head and neck surgery.

Thanks for joining us for another episode of Head and Neck Innovations. I'm your host, Paul Bryson, Director of the Cleveland Clinic Voice Center. You can follow me on X, formerly Twitter, @PaulCBryson, and you can get the latest updates from Cleveland Clinic Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery by following @CleClinicHNI on X. That's @CleClinicHNI. You can also find us on LinkedIn at Cleveland Clinic Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery, and Instagram at Cleveland Clinic Otolaryngology and CCF OHNS Residents.

Before we kick off today's episode, I encourage our listeners to go back and listen to the previous resident update episodes in our podcast library where we hear from our residents about new research they're involved with as well as what they love about their experience in Cleveland.

Today I'm excited to speak with two more of our otolaryngology – head and neck surgery residents, Dr. Emily Zhang and Dr. David Octeau. Dr. Zhang has begun her fifth year, her chief year of residency training in our program, and Dr. Octeau is now in his third year. Welcome to Head and Neck Innovations.

Emily Zhang: Thank you. Thanks for having us.

David Octeau: Thank you.

Paul Bryson: We were just saying even before we got started, I can't believe this time of year, the new academic year, kind of moving up to another level, and it's a long program, but these are the times of year where it really feels like time’s moving fast.

Emily Zhang: Yeah, definitely.

Paul Bryson: So well, let's start by having you share some background on yourselves for our listeners, where you're from, where you went to med school, things like that.

Emily Zhang: Sure. So I am from Indiana originally, Indianapolis area, and I went to Indiana University for undergrad and then I came to Cleveland for medical school and decided to stay for residency.

David Octeau: I'm originally from Montreal. I first came to the U.S. for college where I went to Princeton, then took a little hiatus after that from the U.S. I actually went back to Canada. I worked one year in consulting and then two years in master's program in genetics at McGill University. Then I came back and did med school at Mount Sinai in New York, and then finally here for residency.

Emily Zhang: I didn't know that you went back and did a master's and was working in consulting.

David Octeau: Yeah, yeah. That's why I'm old.

Paul Bryson: Isn't it fun? It takes a podcast.

Emily Zhang: Exactly. That's right.

Paul Bryson: Find out the details, right, people's lives. No, it's fun, right? Well, so I mean, Emily, you've been here now for going on five years forever. So how's Cleveland been going for you guys? How do you like now to be year three for you (David)? Year five for you (Emily)? Actually more for medical school to now, so you're kind of a local. How's the transition to Cleveland been?

David Octeau: I love it. It's not very hard for me to speak about Cleveland. I absolutely love it. I mean, moving from New York and everything, definitely. This is more my speed. I really like having so much space at home and living with my wife. Obviously we're having such a great time. I really did not realize that there was so much opportunities as far as shows, arts, restaurants here. I spent four years in New York, didn't go to a single Broadway show, mostly because I was a medical student. But I mean here I've been to three or four now. I've been to multiple concerts at the, not Play Square, but the orchestra, Severance Hall. And then obviously the Blossom Music Festival, just yeah, we've been having really a great time in this area and it just so makes the residency so easy.

Also, just in terms of living very close. I mean, it's an eight 10 minute drive here, no traffic, so I feel like it can really maximize the time outside of the hospital, which I really appreciate.

Emily Zhang: Summer is the best time to be in Cleveland for sure. The weather's just perfect. It's sunny and warm, but not too hot. It's not humid. There's a cool breeze from the lake. And I have to agree, I feel like all the specifics of living in a place, the commute, how easy it is to get around, not having a lot of traffic, not having a lot of wait times, things not costing a lot is really underrated. My husband and I actually bought our first townhome last year, and so we've been there over a year now, and it's amazing having all that space and kind of leaning into having our own place, being able to host people and have people over, and we got a pizza oven, so we're going to fire that up this summer.

David Octeau: Yeah, fully embracing suburbia. I love it.

Emily Zhang: Yeah, exactly. Leaning into it.

Paul Bryson: Some simple pleasures.

Emily Zhang: A hundred percent.

Paul Bryson: Are you making your own dough?

Emily Zhang: So my husband is kind of the dough expert, and then I like to arrange and assemble the toppings, so we experiment with that, but the summer is also the best time to get Cleveland ice cream is great, and those are musts. When the AI's asked me what to do, I'm like, you got to go get ice cream before you leave.

David Octeau: Yeah.

Paul Bryson: That's very true. This is like, I believe campfire s'mores comes back online…

Emily Zhang: Oh, yes. That's my favorite.

Paul Bryson: Yeah, same. That's my favorite. Yeah, I look forward to that every year.

Emily Zhang: Exactly. Marshmallows are great, and it's smoky, it's delicious.

Paul Bryson: Yeah, it's awesome. So what have you both been up to in the program over the past couple months? Any highlights that you wanted to share about your experiences? Any new research or interesting things that you've been involved with on your various services?

David Octeau: Yeah, I think I kind of went through this period from November until March-April, where I was consult and then night flow. So a lot of obviously responding to pages and seeing new consults and then went back to general for month, and now I'm on my pediatric rotation, which I feel like is the first time you go back to having inpatient service in a while, and I've been having a great time. I've enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would, not because I thought I wouldn't enjoy it, just because I've just been surprised at how much I've been having a good time. I like the pace of it, the cases, our staff, they're just so knowledgeable and they let us do so much and teach us so much, which is always super appreciated.

They go out of their way to make sure we have some time to talk over cases, talk about the different things we might see, and obviously the bread and butter, hearing loss and different subjects and stuff like that. And I feel like recently getting my hands on new cases as I get more comfortable than my first foreign body removal, which I feel like is a big rite of passage, as a resident, definitely. I felt pretty good about that. So it's been good so far.

Emily Zhang: What was it again?

David Octeau: It was a tooth.

Emily Zhang: That's right.

David Octeau: Yeah, it had been knocked off during intubation.

Paul Bryson: Oh, okay. That's nice that you retrieved it.

Emily Zhang: Yeah, right.

David Octeau: Exactly, right? Lung, so it wasn't supposed to be there?

Paul Bryson: No, wouldn't recommend it.

Emily Zhang: For me, the last couple of months have been pretty busy because I've been interviewing for head and neck fellowship, so that's been really nice actually, because it causes you to really pause and reflect on experience and residency. It's made me feel really grateful for the experience that I've had here and also for the support of all my mentors here. That really encouraged me to pursue head and neck as well. So it's nice also to meet everyone in the field because it's a small field, but also gets you thinking about what you want for your future and what kind of impact you want to make. And especially going to chief here, I think that's made me think about what kind of other things do I want to get involved in? How can I be a better chief resident? How can I be a better teacher?

Paul Bryson: That's great. And congrats on picking your specialty and going down the fellowship interview trail. It's kind of fun, but also can be a little nerve wracking for sure, but I'm sure it'll be good. We'll look forward to an update on who's lucky enough to match you.

Well, what else? We were kind of talking, it's natural to talk about living in Cleveland and how nice it is. For us, we really like the parks and I think you hit the nail on the head. The weather this time of year is really excellent. So we travel some, but actually this time of year it's really nice to just be around. You can take part in everything. I really like the parks and all that. Anything else you guys wanted to highlight?

David Octeau: I enjoy cycling actually. I go out a lot, take my bike, go out on the road, and I think it's pretty easy. I live on the east side of Cleveland, in Cleveland Heights, and it's pretty easy to take kind of a two lane road. I don't like cars very much, so I try to stay away from busy times, but it's easy to get out at multiple times a day and find a place that's pretty quiet. You get to the Chagrin Falls area and hit some hills there and really beautiful roads and more like farmland. And then next thing you know you're back home in 30 minutes, an hour, hour and a half. So that's been a lot of fun.

Something I kind of rediscovered, I play golf also a couple times with Katherine (Miller) and Maggie's (Parkhurst) husbands also, so it's been fun to hang out with them and go out. As part of the Metroparks, these public courses are part of the Metroparks, and they're very affordable and very beautiful. A lot of them have consistently rank in some of the most beautiful top course top public courses in the us so that's also a lot of fun.

Paul Bryson: Yeah, the golf situation here is very good.

Emily Zhang: Yeah, I don't golf, but I do like the parks a lot. I am sort of getting into running. I mean, I see David's drive, I'm like, that's aspirational for me. But yeah, so part of the reason why we moved was one, for more space so we could host people, but also we'd be closer to nature. We were in Ohio City before and that's really nice. It's a really hip area and you can walk to a bunch of restaurants, but there weren't any big parks nearby. And now we live in Lakewood, and Lakewood is, Lakewood Park’s five minutes away, and it's beautiful. If you can catch the summer solstice on the solstice steps, it's really nice. So there's definitely a lot of outdoor stuff to do for sure. And then Blossom, you mentioned Blossom. I'm going to go see Hozier there. They also do, the orchestra plays the soundtrack to the movie, so they're doing Lord of the Rings, they're doing Indiana Jones. Concerts here I feel like are “primo” because they come here and it's on the list, but it's not as packed or expensive. There's actually a really good lineup this year.

David Octeau: And what's fun with the orchestra is, so we went and there's this big hill in front of the stage, and when we went, it was Broadway musical and it had singers and the orchestra would play in the back, and we were going with our other friend and we packed this dinner, but we brought nice stuff, nice charcuterie…

Emily Zhang: Yeah, that we did that too. Bread? Yep. Charcuterie board. Wine…

David Octeau: Wine. And we're like, are we doing too much right now? But you show up and everybody's doing it…

Emily Zhang: You feel great, even people will bring inflatable couches and chairs. People go all in. It's great.

Paul Bryson: Yeah, the lawn of blossom is pretty nice.

Emily Zhang: It's really nice.

Paul Bryson: The sound out there is really good too.

Emily Zhang: Yes, yes. Great acoustics.

Paul Bryson: Well, let's wrap up with a question. I've asked all our other previous residents who've been guests on the podcast. Can you share what it was about Cleveland Clinic that made you want to match with us?

David Octeau: Well, for me, I’ve got to give a shout out to Emily. Remember I'm on peds right now, so big throwback. Emily was my two and I was doing my AI here. And yeah, I think it starts with the people and everyone I've met was so nice and so helpful. And also just seeing people. I think AI, I was kind of limited. I could only do one obviously, but even coming here and comparing to other programs is just the way the staff were interacting with the residents and how skilled they were. I thought through all the levels I was seeing from twos on to chiefs and how much staff would watch over them and teach them. And it was almost like it was a very two-way street of discussions and it was always very inspiring and to see that it could potentially get to that level, even as just a resident, I didn't think that residents could achieve that. So I thought this would be one of the places that I could definitely see myself.

Emily Zhang: Yeah, I remember you being on peds, and I think I had asked you something about the guidelines and you just listed them off. No hesitation. I was like, okay, we’ve got to keep this guy. He is really good. He knew them better than I did. Yeah, I would say the same thing. I think the people here are really special. I don't think you really appreciate as a med student how hard it is to be a good teacher, especially in the OR. I mean how much patience it takes. And I think our staff here, maybe because a lot of them did end up doing their training here, but for whatever reason, they're just incredibly patient. They really prioritize and value resident education. And it's something I didn't even appreciate fully as a med student just because as I've gone through, we've had fellows come in who comment on how much the residents get to do and not just do without supervision, but with graduated autonomy, with specific direction. And that's a really hard thing to do.

So I really appreciate that about this program. And for me, when I was the last class to do in-person rotations before COVID, so I just was most impressed by the residents here in terms of their surgical abilities. And I was like, well, if I want to be the best surgeon I can be, I feel like this is the place I need to be. So that's kind of how I chose…

David Octeau: And I mean just the rest of Cleveland Clinic, I mean putting ENT aside…

Emily Zhang: Yeah, it's a powerhouse.

David Octeau: Every specialty here, just see so many rare things. People seek it out. Then you're just bound to, whether you're on consults, whether through clinic and your cases, it's just you see very unique things here that are very good to see. In addition to all the bread and butter stuff you should get to know. So you learn from the best, whether it's the ICU or whatever outside of the program. So that's also nice.

Emily Zhang: It's also nice to have a lot of resources associated with the clinic. I think sometimes we get a little bit spoiled with that, but yeah, we have access to equipment and things are easy to get and everything is pretty streamlined. Having one hospital system.

David Octeau: Yeah, I mean, just the personnel surrounding it too. I mean, it's pretty amazing even just doing research, all the stats, but I was trying to do meta analysis and systematic review, so I reached out to a librarian for example, and I had no idea we had this resource, but they do most of it for you, just pull out all the articles. They put you in this Tinder for articles. You…

Emily Zhang: Just click like, yes, no, maybe…

David Octeau: And all the reviewers after that.

Emily Zhang: Now you got me wanting to do a systematic review. I'm telling you…

David Octeau: That's great. But it's these things like this that just surprise me. I'm like, how?

Paul Bryson: They're like, oh, we're so glad you called.

Emily Zhang: Right? We've been waiting for you. That's awesome.

David Octeau: Yeah, anything you want to do, anything you can think of, there's going to be help to do it, so it's pretty awesome.

Paul Bryson: That's great. Well, I can't thank you enough for coming onto the podcast today where I think I speak for probably several of the other faculty. We're very proud of you both and just of the progress that you're making and growth as surgeons, so thanks for giving your time to come and talk today. Thanks for having us.

David Octeau: Thanks, Dr. Bryson. Appreciate it.

Paul Bryson: For more information on our Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery Residency Program, and to watch a video highlighting the program and living in Cleveland, visit ClevelandClinic.org/HeadAndNeckResidency. That's ClevelandClinic.org/HeadAndNeckResidency. You can also follow our residency program on Instagram CCF OHNS Residents. That's CCF OHNS Residents.

Dr. Zhang and Dr. Octeau, thanks again for coming on Head and Neck Innovations.

David Octeau: Thank you.

Emily Zhang: Thanks.

Paul Bryson: Thanks for listening to Head and Neck Innovations. You can find additional podcast episodes on our website clevelandclinic.org/podcasts. Or you can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, BuzzSprout, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Don't forget, you can access realtime updates from Cleveland Clinic experts in otolaryngology – head and neck surgery on our Consult QD website at consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/headandneck. Thank you for listening and join us again next time.