Leadership Lessons as an Associate Chief of Staff

Podcast Transcript

Beyond Leadership Podcast Series

Release Date: April 30, 2026

Expiration Date: April 29, 2029

Estimated Time of Completion: 26 minutes

Leadership Lessons as an Associate Chief of Staff

Kendalle Cobb, MD

Description

Welcome to L.E.A.D., a special series by Beyond Leadership. L.E.A.D. is an innovative, action-oriented framework built on four human-centered behaviors: Listening, Empathizing, Adapting, and Developing. In this series, we explore how top leaders apply these behaviors to build trust, foster collaboration, promote growth, and connect authentically every day.

This episode will share practical insights on leading with empathy, making decisions amid uncertainty, developing others, and translating organizational values into everyday action. The conversation offers thoughtful reflections and small, meaningful leadership practices that help create a culture of excellence, trust, and shared purpose.

Learning Objectives

• Describe how to apply empathetic leadership strategies to communicate effectively and build trust.
• Explain how organizational values can be reflected in daily leadership practices while balancing accountability, compassion, and standards of excellence.
• Identify practical approaches to developing others through coaching, feedback, and problem-solving that empower individuals and strengthen team-based care.

Target Audience

This program is designed for healthcare professionals interested in advancing their leadership skills.

Accreditation

In support of improving patient care, Cleveland Clinic Center for Continuing Education is jointly accredited by the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education (ACCME), the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE), the American Nurses Credentialing Center (ANCC), and Interprofessional Continuing Education (IPCE) Credit to provide continuing education for the healthcare team.

Credit Designation

• American Medical Association (AMA)

Cleveland Clinic Center for Continuing Education designates this internet enduring material for a maximum of 0.5 AMA PRA Category 1 Credits™. Physicians should claim only the credit commensurate with the extent of their participation in the activity.

Participants claiming CME credit from this activity may submit the credit hours to the American Osteopathic Association for Category 2 credit.

• American Nurses Credentialing Center (ANCC)

Cleveland Clinic Center for Continuing Education designates this internet enduring material for a maximum of 0.5 ANCC contact hours.

• American Academy of PAs (AAPA)

Cleveland Clinic Center for Continuing Education has been authorized by the American Academy of PAs (AAPA) to award AAPA Category 1 CME credit for activities planned in accordance with AAPA CME Criteria. This activity is designated for 0.5 AAPA Category 1 CME credits. PAs should only claim credit commensurate with the extent of their participation.

• Accreditation Council of Pharmacy Education (ACPE)

Cleveland Clinic Center for Continuing Education designates this knowledge-based activity for a maximum of 0.5 hours. Credit will be provided to NABP CPE Monitor within 60 days after the activity completion. Universal Activity Number List:

- Pharmacist UAN: JA0000192-0000-26-042-H99-P

• Interprofessional Continuing Education (IPCE) Credit

This activity was planned by and for the healthcare team, and learners will receive 0.5 Interprofessional Continuing Education (IPCE) credit for learning and change.

• Certificate of Participation

A certificate of participation will be provided to other health care professionals for requesting credits in accordance with their professional boards and/or associations.

Cleveland Clinic Planning Committee

James Stoller, MD, MS
Co-Activity Director
Chair, Education

Cecile Foshee, PhD
Co-Activity Director
Director, Office of Interprofessional Learning

Sawsan Abdel Razig, MD
Chief Academic Officer, Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi

Lindsey Amerine, PharmD
Sr. VP, Chief Pharmacy Officer

Lisa Baszynski, DNP
Executive Director, Associate Chief Nursing Officer

Colleen Carroll, MS
Sr. Director of Leadership and Learning

Matthew Donnelly, MBBS (Hons)
VP, Professional Staff Affairs

Mark Hamilton, MD
Cleveland Clinic London

Jospeh Iannotti, MD
Chief of Staff, Cleveland Clinic Florida

Debra Kangisser, PA-C
Office of Interprofessional Learning

Aanchal Kapoor, MD, MEd
Founder and Director of the Medical Intensive Liver Unit

Suchetha Kshettry, MD
Enterprise & Ohio Women’s Professional Staff Association President, (2025-2026)

Christopher Nagel, BA, MA
VP, Leadership and Learning

Silvia Perez Protto, MD<
Immediate Women’s Professional Staff Association Past President, (2025)

Ronna Romano, MBA
Office of Interprofessional Learning

Stormy Sweitzer, PhD
Office of Interprofessional Learning

Faculty

Kendalle Cobb, MD
Associate Chief of Staff
Cleveland Clinic

Host

Elizabeth Pugel
Global Leadership and Learning Institute

Disclosures

The Cleveland Clinic Center for Continuing Education has implemented a policy to comply with the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education Standards for Integrity and Independence. This activity includes non-clinical content only. In accordance with the Standards for Integrity and Independence, identification, mitigation and disclosure of financial relationships does not apply.

CME Disclaimer

The information in this educational activity is provided for general medical education purposes only and is not meant to substitute for the independent medical judgment of a physician relative to diagnostic and treatment options of a specific patient's medical condition. The viewpoints expressed in this CME activity are those of the authors/faculty. They do not represent an endorsement by The Cleveland Clinic Foundation. In no event will The Cleveland Clinic Foundation be liable for any decision made or action taken in reliance upon the information provided through this CME activity.

HOW TO OBTAIN AMA PRA Category 1 Credits™, ANCC, AAPA, ACPE, IPCE Contact Hours, OR CERTIFICATE OF PARTICIPATION:

Go to:

http://cce.ccf.org/ccecme/process?site_code=main&activity_session_code=EKCE02707

to log into myCME and begin the activity evaluation and print your certificate. If you need assistance, contact the CME office at myCME@ccf.org

Copyright © 2026 The Cleveland Clinic Foundation. All Rights Reserved.

Podcast Transcript

Kelly Hancock, DNP, RN, NE-BC, FAAN:

Hello and welcome to Beyond Leadership, a Cleveland Clinic podcast where we explore the many dimensions of leadership. I'm Kelly Hancock, Executive Vice President, Chief Caregiver and Administrative Officer here at Cleveland Clinic, and I'm thrilled to have you join us. In this podcast series, we'll feature conversations with remarkable thinkers and uncover how their insights and experiences are shaping the future of leadership in healthcare. Now, let's turn it over to our host who will guide us through today's enlightening conversation.

Elizabeth Pugel:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's episode. I am your host, Elizabeth Pugel, and this is Beyond Leadership. Leadership at any level requires balance between vision and operations, people and performance, decisions and empathy. Today, we're exploring what leadership looks like from the vantage point of an associate chief of staff, the lessons learned, the challenges faced, and the insights that continue to shape how leaders inspire excellence in healthcare. I am joined today by Dr. Kendalle Cobb, who serves as Associate Chief of Staff at Cleveland Clinic. We'll unpack key leadership lessons from her experience, how to lead through uncertainty, develop others, and uphold organizational values and moments that matter. In healthcare, leadership often means navigating ambiguity, balancing patient needs, staff wellbeing, and system priorities. Good afternoon, Dr. Cobb.

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

Thank you for having me here today.

Elizabeth Pugel:

What does leading through complexity look like in your role as associate chief of staff?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I think that there always are changes, and I think that can be really hard for people. So, communicating with people [about] what's going on, and making sure that they understand that I'm grateful, that they're here at doing what they do, that making sure that people know that they're valued and appreciated. And then, I think a lot of times people can get overwhelmed with what's being asked, and so reassuring people that regardless of what's going on, we have a lot of smart people, and that we can figure out how to move forward together. I think that it's really important. People have brilliant ideas because they're living the work every day. And so, really asking them their opinion and helping them share in the problem solving.

Elizabeth Pugel:

How do you approach decision making when there's no clear right answer?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I return to Dr. Mihaljevic's vision of this being the best place to work in healthcare and the best place to receive care anywhere. An example of that is a large part of my work over the last 15, 16 years has been related to making sure that we have a workforce that's representative of the communities that we serve. And making sure that everyone, regardless of whatever experiences they've had to date, has world-class care, and has excellent patient experience, and excellent outcomes. And so, I think that part of that, in the last couple of years in particular, has meant using my resources. And so, whether that's talking to people in the law department, talking to people in communication and sort of helping to continue our purpose of providing world-class care while not putting the organization in a sort of tricky situation.

Elizabeth Pugel:

You mentioned using your resources. Can you share a moment when you had to lead through uncertainty or competing priorities?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

Yes. I tend to respond with empathy. I maintain the messaging. And so, I think that sometimes people get off topic or off message. And I think that it's important for people to realize that we still believe in the important things that make Cleveland Clinic what it is. Making sure that people understand that while continuing the messaging and not going sort of off on what people think we should be saying.

Elizabeth Pugel:

Leading with empathy is so important to all of our healthcare workers, especially our leaders. How do you ensure communication remains transparent during times of change?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I think that making sure that I listen, making sure that people understand that I know that we're going through hard times, that what we're being asked to do is not easy. That really goes a long way to hear people and what their concerns are. That's essential.

Elizabeth Pugel:

Complexity is constant in healthcare, but how leaders respond can define culture. Let's talk a little bit about how values and people guide those decisions. Leadership isn't just about managing operations. It's about aligning daily actions with a larger purpose. What core values guide your leadership decisions?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

Excellence. Loyalty. Hard work. Service comes naturally for me. I thank people a lot. And I think that it's easy when there's a lot to do or there's busyness to get so focused on what we're doing that we forget that everybody's bringing their best selves to the work, and people want to know that you notice that regardless of what their role is on the team.

Elizabeth Pugel:

I can really sense a deep core value that helps guide your leadership decisions. How do you translate organizational values into daily practice?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

So, I was working with someone clinically, this was a while ago, who was making a lot of mistakes: documenting things inaccurately, leaving beverage containers from their lunch in exam rooms, not having done what she said that she had done. I involved her supervisor after attempts to modify her behavior were unsuccessful. I think that that's challenging because at the heart of it, I care deeply about people, and we have a certain standard that patients expect regardless of where they go.

Elizabeth Pugel:

Can you also share an example of a time when staying true to values required a tough call?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I think that that's one. I think that's probably the one that comes to mind the most. I also think that people sometimes feel like we're living in this big world and there's a lot of things going on. And sometimes I get the sense, understandably, that people feel like we as an organization or we as leaders should be doing something differently than we are. And I get that, but one of the things that comes to mind is a conversation that I had with Dr. Ridgeway and one of our one-to-ones and she told me, "You can't be an activist in your, your role." And that was interesting to me because I don't really tend to think of myself as sort of some Angela Davis or Stokely Carmichael figure. And I really had to take a step back and think about what are the things that I'm doing that might be landing in a way that's different than what I intend?

And then I had a decision, right? Like, do I stay in my role? Do I modify my behavior? What are the gifts that I bring to my role? And so I've second guessed myself at times, but I think realizing that I'm not the only one that sees the things that I see. And so, it's an intentional decision how the organization chooses to navigate challenging times, and we as individuals might do things in a different way. But we're not talking about any of us as individuals. I'm thinking about if you were to think about the organization becoming a target for people that might be disenfranchised in some way, and how is that going to affect those people and those families and those careers?

Elizabeth Pugel:

I really appreciate the conversation around intentionality. How do you help others connect their work to a broader mission?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I think that one thing that happens is that doctors get a lot of credit for being the best at what they do in this organization. And one of the things I really appreciate is that regardless of where you go in the organization, people are the best at what they do. And so, I had talked about the law department previously, communications people, front desk people. And so, recognizing that all of us are needed to end up with that world-class care that makes the Clinic what it is. And so it's really important that everybody realize, no, you're part of [it]. Whether it's a commercial that you see, whether it's what's happening in a room, if we don't have people that make sure that the equipment is up to snuff, then that compromises delivering world-class care. And I think that wherever you go in the organization, realizing that the people are the best in the world at what they do is really important.

And so, helping people remember, you're part of what makes us the organization that we are.

Elizabeth Pugel:

As we've talked about so far, strong leadership also means developing others and really helping emerging leaders grow into their own strengths. So, let's explore a little bit more of that now. So, one of the most lasting legacies of leadership is the growth of others. How do you identify and cultivate leadership potential within your teams?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I observe a lot, and so there's some people that might be drawing the limelight, and that might be some of the leaders, but there might be people that phrase a question that brings up a different perspective, or who simply makes a statement. And I think that with those people, having a conversation with them and acknowledging what they have brought to the conversation, and if they're open to it, providing feedback. It's not uncommon that I'll reach out to someone that gives a presentation afterwards and I'll text them and remind them that they're doing great work because it can be intimidating talking in front of a large group and that they know the material better than anybody else. People are, are usually far more self-critical than they are of saying, "Oh, I was really good at that. " And I think that especially in developing others, it's important to balance what people might be feeling as they doubt themselves.

Elizabeth Pugel:

I think that's a, a great point of reaching out to people, letting them know what they did well, and continuing to empower those strengths that they have. What has been one coaching or mentoring approach that's made a difference in your leadership journey?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

One of the techniques is being curious, which we talk about in coaching and mentoring. And that was initially something that I heard about, there was a woman named Christine Taylor who did faculty development at CCLCM, and she talked about using the ask, tell, ask model. And that's really important because it allows you to know what the other person knows, but also their insights as to what contributed to their behavior. 'Cause I already know what I think, but I don't know the reasons behind what I've observed. And I've found that when people lead from that place of asking me questions about sort of like, "Tell me more. Like it doesn't seem like you're showing up in the same way, or like what's getting in the way of you're doing your best work?" That feels very different than if somebody is telling me like, "You were late or like whatever it is.”

And so, I think that that opens up things. And then the other thing is that I tend to avoid asking the question why, so I, I usually will reframe that. So, I tend to say, "What factors contributed to your action or behavior?" And then that sort of helps me to understand because why is it going to put somebody on the defensive. If I know that somebody ordered a certain series of tests or sent an email because this is what they were thinking, then we can have a discussion about, "Okay, I get that. Here's some other ways that you can manage that." I think that that's really important. So, the two things are being curious and, and getting their insights, but also making room and creating a safe environment for people to share. This is what I was thinking when I decided to do whatever it was.

Elizabeth Pugel:

I know our listeners are probably appreciating the asking the question in a non-threatening way and that leads into our next question. How do you balance accountability with compassion when providing feedback?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I think that it can be hard. I think that making sure that people know what the expectations are upfront helps. So one of the challenges that I've had over time is that if I ask somebody to do something. I sometimes feel like they're doing me a favor and I think what I've learned over time is that it's helpful to sort of say, "This is what I need and I'm hoping that you can get it to me by X date." I think that that allows people that I'm asking to say like, "You know what? I have all this other stuff going on, so that's not going to work for me." Or to  know how urgent I think something is. And so, I think that that accountability piece comes with that. That's challenging for me because like at the end of the day, I care deeply, but it doesn't necessarily come off it as that because really at the end of the day, I want a particular outcome. I want the excellent care or the excellent relationship and so I think that the compassion is built up over time/

So, as I'm coming to work, asking the people that I see frequently, like I've heard your name, but can you show it to me because I'm a visual person and double checking that I know how they pronounce their name and thanking them. So, you have Brene Brown who has the marbles and how easy it is to  lose that trust. I think that if you have that foundation, that's really helpful because then it's not that you're expecting the person to do whatever. It's that you already have this connection with this person, and they know that you respect them.

Elizabeth Pugel:

Yeah, that's a great point that you've established trust by creating a solid foundation. So, when you do need to provide feedback, it's not as threatening or difficult because you do have that relationship with that individual. What would be one piece of advice you would give to someone stepping into their first leadership role?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I think going back to what I was saying before, making sure that you're clear on what the expectations are, what the deliverables are. Making sure that you ask for allocated time, that you understand what you need. And so many of us who don't work on Main Campus don't have administrative support. And I've found that it's helpful to have somebody that helps manage my schedule. And so, figuring out what those things are, but I think that really being clear on what the expectations are in an organization that's constantly evolving. Then sometimes we're creating as we go, and that can be challenging. And so really taking that step of co-creating a job description and having feedback from whoever your supervisor is that like, oh yeah, because I think also identifying where the needs are so that the person can say like, "Yeah, exactly. I do think that we need that or like, okay, yeah, we need that, but it's not one of my top five priorities." And so, I think that being proactive is also important.

Elizabeth Pugel:

That's a great piece of advice to give to all leaders. Even the best leaders though, face setbacks and learn from them, hopefully. Let's discuss a few challenges that have shaped your leadership philosophy. Every leader has moments that test resilience. Those experiences often offer the deepest lessons. What has been one of your most formative leadership challenges?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I think it, it's what I was sharing about the incident with Dr. Ridgeway. That's probably one I think also, sometimes we observe things and we know how we perceive them and how other people might perceive them. Most people, regardless of if they're in leadership or not, don't want to feel misunderstood. And so, reaching out to the person and saying, "Here's how I'm concerned that this is gonna be perceived. What can I do to work with you so that we send this other message that I know is important to you based on other things that I've seen you do and say?" And so, I think partnering as opposed to creating this adversarial relationship. I think that people appreciate and realizing that everybody's human.

So, this is a silly story, but I think that it speaks to who I am. So, a few days, probably a week before Dr. Mihaljevic's first State of the Clinic. I was having these dreams, like these anxiety dreams about the anxiety that one would feel giving their first State to the Clinic.

And I ended up sending him an email. Like this time he didn't know me from, , any of the, however many tens of thousands of employees we had at the time. And I shared with him, I was like "I've been having these anxiety nightmares about the State of the Clinic that you're gonna be delivering, and so I can only imagine what the, the feelings you are leading into this. And so, I want to remind you that everything that you've experienced in life up to this point has prepared you for this." That I think that realizing that we all have similar feelings of wanting to do a good job when we have responsibilities helps people to realize the commonality of our humanity.

Elizabeth Pugel:

What practices help you stay grounded and resilient as a leader?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

The relationships, whether it's with my colleagues, with the students that I work with, my family and friends. I took up yoga about little over 10 years ago and my yoga instructor says that how you are on your mat is how you are in life. And when things get hard, I'm like, "I'm outta here." And so recognizing that. My faith is also really important to me, but I think that humor helps me as well, but really the, the relationships. I think that the people who work here, they're the best at what they do, but that's not the only reason why this place is great. I often talk about the medical school students that they're smart and they're kind, and I think that that's true of many people that work here. And so, cultivating those relationships and helping people to realize that they're not alone is something that strengthens me.

Elizabeth Pugel:

How do you recover and help others recover when decisions don't go as planned?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I think it goes back to making sure that people realize that they're valued and appreciated. , inevitably, like I've been on both sides of things, where I've been chosen for a leadership role and when I haven't been chosen. And I often will reach out to people that I know have been vulnerable in putting themselves out there in a willingness to serve so that they realize that like they are valued, they are appreciated. And sometimes it might mean looking at things in a different way. So, several years ago, I was doing an annual performance review with a staff member, and they were really interested in doing one particular procedure. And then a few years later, I had another annual performance review with the person, and the person had found their niche. They weren't able to like do that procedure, but they were doing education, I think.

And so helping people to realize that there's so many different ways to serve and that there's a saying that you don't have to have a title to be a leader, but we all create the culture here, and that caring for one another is something that I think that we do really well, not only for patients, but for fellow caregivers.

Elizabeth Pugel:

You've shared lessons learned, strategies for growth and reflections on resilience. Let's take a few minutes to close out our podcast with your perspective on the evolving nature of leadership in healthcare. Today we've explored how innovation in healthcare requires trust, small, purposeful pilots, balancing risk and readiness, empowering change agents and all above adaptability. What leadership mindset do you think healthcare needs most right now?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I think creativity. I think that what has gotten us to this point is not going to be viable in the long run. And by that, I mean, I still believe that people that go into healthcare are altruistic. There's something about the healthcare system that was built on self-sacrifice, whether it's people working until they're 80, doing whatever needs to be done. And I think that really we'll need to switch that to more team-based care and that has to do with the clinician sort of not feeling like that they're the only person that can manage a patient, but that it's a team. But it also has to do with making sure that the patients understand that everybody on the team is skilled and caring and they're working as a team. And I think that surgical subspecialties have done a better job than some of the non-procedural disciplines, but I think that that is gonna be important to shift the paradigm.

Elizabeth Pugel:

How do you see the role of healthcare leaders evolving over the next decade?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

I think that increasingly because of the complexity, it goes back to what I was saying before. You can share what the problem is, and you can share where the goal is, but I think that getting there will depend on maximizing people's willingness to say, "Hey,  this is what I think would work in my area." Creating an environment where people are bringing their best ideas and ultimately, I think that like whoever's in charge is gonna make the decision, but really having all the information I think is gonna be key because it's so complex. So, I think that that's gonna be really important.

Elizabeth Pugel:

Our final question today, what is one small leadership practice you would encourage other listeners to start tomorrow?

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

It goes back to making sure that  the names of the people that you see on a regular basis and how they pronounce their name, thanking them. I think that if we all do those two things, it creates the culture that is needed to provide world-class care.

Elizabeth Pugel:

I'd like to thank Dr. Cobb for sharing her insights today.

Kendalle Cobb, MD:

It's been a pleasure to spend some time with you, and I hope that the listeners will gain some tidbits from our discussion.

Elizabeth Pugel:

This concludes another episode of Beyond Leadership. You can find additional podcast episodes on our website, clevelandclinic.org/beyondleadership, or subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.