Listening to Lead – Creating and Leading Successful Teams with Chief Executive Officer of Cleveland Clinic Florida Conor Delaney MD

Podcast Transcript

Brian Bolwell, MD: Welcome to Beyond Leadership at the intersection of leadership and everything else. In this Cleveland Clinic podcast, we will co-mingle with extraordinary thinkers and explore the impact of their ideas and experiences on leadership and management.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to today's episode of Beyond Leadership. I'm your host, Dr. Brian Bolwell, Director of Physician Leadership Development of the Jack, Joseph and Morton Mandel Global Learning and Leadership Institute. Today we're very pleased to have Dr. Conor Delaney join us for today's conversation. Conor is a long-standing friend of mine, and currently he is the CEO and President of Cleveland Clinic, Florida. Conor, welcome.

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: Brian, thank you. Pleasure to be here, and look forward to chatting.

Brian Bolwell, MD: So, Conor by trade you're a colorectal surgeon. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about your career, of your time as Institute Chair of the Digestive Disease Institute, and ultimately, what led you to consider this opportunity in Florida?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: Absolutely, Brian. I would love to. As you said, I'm a colorectal surgeon. I came to that through nearly doing transplant and ended up in Cleveland in 1999, working with Dr. Vic Fazio for what I thought was a year before returning to a position in Ireland, but he asked us to stay. My wife and I, and kids, we stayed for another year, and that was 22 years ago. My crystal ball doesn't work so well. Obviously, it's been a fantastic time.

Brian, what happened initially was I started practice at a time when we were doing a couple of really interesting things. One was really pretty early in the stage of developing laparoscopic colorectal surgery. The second was really starting, in the US at least, what we called fast track surgery back then, or enhanced recovery after surgery. So that's developing the evidence around evidence-based standardized protocols for perioperative care. And, what both of those things did was help patients recover more quickly, and with fewer complications after surgery, and get them home more quickly. We dropped, for example, in the very first paper from an average of 7.7 days to four, and then with laparoscopy further. Patients went home taking Tylenol only and off pain meds and all the things with laparoscopy.

But it got me thinking around the operational side of things, and about how we need to contribute to organizations to keep ourselves sustainable. That, in 20 years of publishing and doing research around it, increased the interest. Then I was really honored back in 2015 to, as you say, lead digestive disease and surgery for the clinic, because it's an absolutely phenomenal group of people, and surgeons, gastroenterologists, others, and evolved that for working with the team. And it was a wonderful, wonderful period in my life and my career. Worked with people more, learned more about different things, about leadership that I'm sure we'll chat through. And then, a little over a year ago, got asked to come and join the Florida team in this role. So, we've been down here a little over a year, and it's been an exciting and busy year.

Brian Bolwell, MD: Conor, let's go back to the Digestive Disease and Surgery Institute. For our listeners, I think you're all aware that the Cleveland Clinic is organized into clinical institutes, and DDSI is one of the largest that we have, and one of the most important that we have within our organization. One of the things that we have is a very broad regional network, and certainly DDSI touches all of that network. Conor, how did you approach that? Because that's been something that's been complex and, to some degree, in evolution.

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: Yeah, I think you're right on both sides. Complex and evolving always, and probably will continue so, honestly. So I approached it as an opportunity, really. Obviously, a lot of what we're known at the clinic happens at main campus where we've got a huge facility, and a huge group of people, and have people who come in from a lot of places. But, I think what many people outside the immediate organization don't realize is that we actually have that A, reputation and B, practice through many of our regional hospitals in Ohio, and same in Florida. So, in the role as Institute Chair, and I don't know if everybody knows, but the institutes at Cleveland Clinic have allowed us bring together medical and surgical specialists in, suffice to say, one practice group. So they provide better and more integrated care to patients, which is the most important thing, but it also has opportunities around education and research that aren't as easily available without that partnership.

So we've got the main campus, but we also have very strong hubs on the east and west side of Cleveland, and south, and also Florida, and now Abu Dhabi, and soon London and all of those things. I decided to embrace that, Brian, and was lucky enough to be able to bring some people in to add to the talent, both at main campus, but also particularly in the region. And I think as we go into the region, we learn that there's a lot of amazing care happening in all of the hospitals that we end up touching and joining. And honestly, I think in many ways we learn as much from them and their practice models sometimes as we like to think that we bring. With various people on the team, we partnered with practitioners in the community, in different specialists. And then we were able to build our care plans, build our teams, build the complexity of care that we provided, build the relationships with the doctors in the community, and just scale the care that we want to bring to patients.

And so became a partnership with each of the hospitals and teams there, but also with the referring and community physicians. Then scaled that to Florida, and the opportunity to work with the team down here as well and, and Abu Dhabi and London. But I think that's a model that we're learning through. As you said, it's never a fixed point because often when we go to these hospitals, there's a mix of employed people, and independent people, and some who are more or less aligned. And then as time goes on, they often become more aligned. So that's part of the journey, right? How we relate and communicate with them and build our teams as we bring care to the regions.

Brian Bolwell, MD: Conor, one of the things you mentioned earlier was your pioneering work, really, in standardizing postoperative care, leading towards better outcomes and shorter lengths of stay. And that's something that you presented to your colleagues, other chairmen of institutes frequently. I was always very impressed by that. Were you able to take some of that work into the region, the regional hospitals?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We've taken it, honestly, all around the world and not just to our sites. Absolutely, I think standardizing orders, surgery as much as medicine... And I think physicians often think that they practice an art, right, and what they do is always perfect. I think as time has gone on, and particularly over the last 10 to 20 years, I think it's become very clear that as we standardize processes and standardize care pathways, and come towards more consensus, we end up providing better care. And for a whole variety of reasons, and as much as anything, it's because the team are aligned around a similar mission. But also, as time has gone on, we, and other areas, have been able to build evidence around the specific steps in those care processes.

So, as we brought them to the regions and communities... I think there was largely a fairly immediate recognition that this makes sense. Helps people recover more quickly. It helps them get home more reliably. Doesn't change the readmission rates. It improves the pain score, and quality of life, and things like that. So, it actually was supported very well and robustly throughout the community. It's been sustained very well, and now the level of evidence, obviously, is very high meta-analysis and all the papers to show that it works.

Brian Bolwell, MD:It's quite impressive though, your ability to pretty quickly, and I think, rapidly, and effectively take that work and make it part of standardized practice in the regions. That's pretty cool stuff. You're also the leader of an awful lot of people in DDSI. What two things did you learn about running such a big, complicated, diverse institute?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: I'm only laughing at two. I don't know if this...

Brian Bolwell, MD: Well, actually, if you want to go on at more than that...

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: No, I'm never good at either remembering or coming up with lists. So I think what I realized through it was... I hope I knew this before I went in, but it became increasing each year, and I think it does, certainly, as the longer I have the opportunity to work with teams and lead teams, is that it's about the team, right? So it's teams. That's not a great surprise, and it's certainly not very original, but I think it's very, very true. That's both how the team functions, but also who's on the team, and having the right team, and the right energy, and the right new blood coming into a team. And, it's almost gardening, right?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: It's not... You don't have a team and leave it, and let it go. That was what I was just about to say, actually, about the enhanced recovery thing. You set it up. You can't just set it up. It fades, and people lose involvement and effort, and it's the same with teams. So, I think the four teams I came away with... Actually, the first is quality, right? So quality has to be first for us and everything, quality, and safety, and protocols, and things like that. The next is the team. Team probably, in a way, trumps quality and drives it, but it should never be first on that list. And then is operations, and consistency in operations. The last is growth because I think it behooves us to grow and to bring our care to others. It helps us bring care to more patients.

It helps us be a strong organization to continue to A, bring care to more patients. But then the downstream opportunity with that is continue to be able to do the education, teach the residents, and fellows, and outside people, and support the research that we want to do to complete our mission. But they'd be the things that jump out. And then, of course, there are many lessons. Handling people, you always think you can do it, but you always learn more about doing it, and working with people and the complexities of that. Handling change, and managing change, and looking after people, and looking after teams as you do it, because there are so many fantastic people around who have very strong ways of doing things, and change is coming, and you have to help them through it. So I think that becomes another very important consideration.

And then, one of the other things that I think always comes up for me is, at the end of the day, how you manage a team and do all those other things. I think one of the important things to remember as we have the honor, which I think it is, of leading teams, is how you work with and how you treat your team, and your manner in treating your team, and how you communicate with them, and your tone and your style, and the ability to collaborate and be inclusive, and things like that. And so, in a way, the soft skills drive all of the other things. So they'd be some of the things that come to mind because it was truly an amazing five, five and a half years.

Brian Bolwell, MD: Well, all of those are really important leadership principles, so in a second, I'm going to ask you about how you actually do drive change. But, I really like what you said last. One of my more favorite lines from one of the many books that I've read is, "If one looks at the difference between successful organizations and those that struggle, there's one common thread. And the thing that's the most common of all of those threads is how you treat your fellow man." Organizations that treat their employees, their teams, their customers, in healthcare, our patients, well just tend to do better than those who don't. And, that implies a lot of things. It implies humility. It implies servant leadership. But, I think that that's a very true statement. So yeah, healthcare is known for change, and it's constantly changing. What's your approach to that, Conor? How do you take a team that may be reluctant to go from point a to point B, and get them to join the club?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: So, a couple of things. First, I think it's important to recognize upfront that it's not always going to be possible for everybody. That's not necessarily the person, but sometimes the structure of their workplace. Or, think of private group who are doing some sessions at a hospital, whose incentives are just very different. Putting some of those structural things aside, because they're not always fixable. Sometimes they join you. Sometimes they don't think like that. Putting that aside, I think it comes down largely, Brian, to what we talked about. Again, it's fostering your team and the people, and your relationships with those people and teams, so that they trust you. Honestly, I think, like you, because that's really important. And then, that you've worked on that team so that you have the best people you can have on it. Again, we were lucky enough, and are lucky enough with what we do, to start with very strong teams, but it's always important to be adding talent to that team.

And then, I think, you've got to do a lot of work trying to inspire them around the vision and the reason for change. And that's not just a quick email saying, "Hey, we're going to do this because..." You've got to meet people, and you've got to talk to them, and you've got to try and engage them. And then, as you go through it, you've got to support them, and you've got to mentor them, and you've got to coach them. And then, you also have to create a space where they can be able to give you honest and open feedback. And, I think, that's critically important because, often, when we think we're driving change for a certain reason, the people... I don't really like "on the ground" as a term, but it just came to mind there. But, the people who are often doing it, right, often know better, or have better ways of doing it. So I think, that those things around team become very important in managing change.

And then, there's a couple of other things I try not to do. One is the pace of change. Something that's really important to consider. Sometimes if you go in too rapidly, you can really break things while you're trying to fix them. So not breaking things, right. Trying to fix them, I think, becomes an important principle, and pacing that change so it's manageable. And obviously, surrounding environmental pressures may change that, but I think they're important concepts to keep in mind.

And then, communicating change to the stakeholders is really important, and figuring out the right cadence of doing that. If you're changing the structure of a group, or something else, that it doesn't go out in a Friday newsletter. You have to start with the people who are going to be most affected. Then, how you do that, and putting all that together. The way I generally, certainly, strive to try and do things is through knowing that we're starting with really good people, and teams who are doing really good stuff, and manage it very incrementally and thoughtfully, giving people the opportunity to provide feedback and perspective on the change before you even implement it, because then you can get much more engagement and have a better plan for change. Because, again, often they're the content experts, and they're the people who are doing it.

Brian Bolwell, MD: Thank you for that. I think that's really good. Major career transition for you. An opportunity to be the CEO of a Florida enterprise arose, and you were chosen for the role. Why did you apply? And then, I'd love to know your initial impressions.

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: So, why did I apply? Over the last couple of decades doing this, I think I've come to the realization that if you're really going to try and scale how you look after patients and do stuff, whether it's education, whether it's research, whether other things, somebody needs to try and manage, help run and drive that, because we've lots of great people who are brilliant at very many of those components, but if nobody's really organizing it and trying to drive and structure it, it doesn't happen as well. So, gradually, that's evolved into thinking that I do enjoy it, because, I think, we can do a lot with it. But, I think, it's a way of scaling our ability to help others, honestly, by leading teams and leading groups. So, coming down to Florida became what I had been honored to do for the Institute for five years. I guess, on a bigger scale, and with a slightly different portfolio, but at the end of the day, it's doing the same thing. It's trying to scale our ability to help patients and help others.

Brian Bolwell, MD: You've been there for about a year. But first, why don't you tell our viewers what Cleveland Clinic Florida is. I'm not sure that that's well known. We have a hospital and clinical facility in Weston, which is outside of Fort Lauderdale, but within the past couple years, we've also added some additional hospital systems. And, one of your challenges is integrating them. What have you learned about that? And, why don't you describe the lay of the land?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: So, I'll give you a little, funny, historical perspective. In 1988, I came to Cleveland Clinic to do a clinical elective with David Jagelman, who was a colorectal surgeon in Cleveland at the time, as a fourth-year medical student, or fifth-year medical student. David had just moved down to Florida to the Beach Hospital, which was the clinic's first footprint in Florida, as Chief of Staff. So I spent six weeks with Dr. Fazio in Cleveland, and then came down, spent two weeks staying with Dr. Jagelman, and his wife and family, here, and seeing the very nascent Cleveland Clinic, Florida. Never dreaming I'd be back, let alone, and back in this role.

And it's grown quite a lot over the last 30 years. So first, it's the footprint in Weston, which is west side of Broward County. And this hospital, it's generally got a census about at 230 or 40 patients, which sounds very small to us who've been at main campus, which is 1,400. But, I can tell you that the case mix index here is one of the highest in the country, and higher than many academic centers that might jump to mind. And, probably, certainly in our system, second to main campus, but there are very few hospitals ahead of us, because in that tiny footprint, it has everything from heart transplant to liver transplant. We just started a living-donor liver transplant program, and all of the other things that you might imagine.

To the Weston footprint, two years ago, was added four hospitals spreading up the Treasure Coast, Stewart, and Port St. Lucy, and Indian River, which is close to a two-hour drive from here. So it's a significant geographic spread, which is one of the opportunities and, yet, challenges. There's a new research hub on footprint, the Florida Research and Innovation Center, which is a fantastic lab space with a biosafety level 3 lab, where we've... With Joe Iannotti, and one of our peers as the chair of the Orthopedic Institute, who's down here as chief of staff... With Joe's vision recruited Michaela Gack who's set up an amazing lab with a lot of incredibly high quality research, NIH funding leadership awards. And now, we have some amazing additional talent coming in, so that helps that side. Then there's about 30 outpatient centers. So, it's actually a very large footprint with about 11,000 caregivers, and a very significant growth trajectory. So, that's the footprint.

And then the mix challenge of it is that Weston is like a main campus with an employed group of physicians. The other hospitals have a mix of some employed and some independent physicians. So, the integration that you alluded to is both the physician integration. And, I think, over the last couple years the large majority of them have realized that we're here for good reasons. We're bringing good care, good patient experience, and they're rolling up their sleeves and joining in.

But also then the hospital management side of integration, which is everything from teams to IT, to facilities, to cardiac monitoring, to supply chain. That's part of the complexity because it was A, doing it over significant geography, B, with this little pandemic going on. And so we're lucky that we have great people on the team, both here in Florida and at enterprise level. And one of the opportunities really has been to keep building those links and relationships with peers around the organization, because I honestly think we're stronger as an enterprise when we function well together. So, that's been our great help, and the enterprise and team have been our great help as we've done this. That's the journey that we're on.

Brian Bolwell, MD: Well, you mentioned COVID. You were up here in Cleveland in early 2020, when the virus hit the United States, and it hit Northeast Ohio. And then, later in 2020, you moved down to Florida. The two states have had different approaches to managing the pandemic. I think the clinic, though, has been very consistent in how we've managed it. What are your takeaways from that? By all accounts, everybody's been very proud of our response, internally, to this pandemic, but boy, you've experienced a couple different ways for state governments to approach it.

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: Yeah. And trying to stay out of politics, the interesting thing is that it's so complicated because the different ways of managing it, it's hard to know differences. It's almost as if the viral surges have trumped any policy change, or anything like that. So the first six or eight months, yes, I was up there, and was part of the team as we put together protocols and things like that. I think we can be very proud of what we've done. I think the protocols that we've come up with have been very safe, and we've been able to show that we can largely look after our caregivers very well when we're looking after COVID patients, even. And we can look after patients very well, whether they're COVID patients, or non-COVID patients, coming in for care. And, that's important. So, hospitals have stayed a safe place to provide care.

Obviously that's improved as we've had vaccines that are rolled out to keep both patients safe and caregivers safe, but have seen different surges. And, the surges in the two states have been very different. The first big surge in Florida was in summer of 2020 when we thought we had a surge in Ohio, but we didn't, really. That was probably related to people being driven inside by high temperatures and looking for AC. As we know now, it's largely airborne and largely indoor that you transmit it. Later, Ohio had a big surge. Then we came down here, and we were wiping surfaces, and planes, and things like that, which as you start flying more and more, you realize that's probably not where you're getting it. So that fades a little bit. And then we've just come through a really significant surge here in Florida in August and September, where the hospitalization rates were three times the previous peak. That would be equivalent to hospitalization rates in Ohio, probably 1,200 patients, which would be double what Ohio had at its peak for our footprint.

So, you're right. It was very different. The reason I say I'm not sure it's driven by state policies is going around the state there's a lot of similarity, actually, in mask wearing and non-mask wearing. I think human behavior is often fairly similar, and what we tend to see in the media is not often what's going on in practice. One of the really surprising things, because we had such a big peak here, is that Florida's, actually, about 9% better vaccinated than Ohio is. And yet, we still have this massive surge. Honestly, I don't quite know what's right. I know vaccines are good. I know our care pathways, and our protocols, and masks, and other utilization are important and right. And I'm just simply hoping that this last big surge of Delta moving through the country is the one that is going to get us to all being either vaccinated or exposed.

Brian Bolwell, MD: Well, I do think that we can say that regardless of what states are doing, that the clinic, the organization's approach, has been uniform and has been effective, and our caregivers have been safe, and been, I think, very proud of what they've been able to accomplish. And I think that's certainly the lens that's very important for our listeners to hear is that states may do what they do. You can achieve outstanding response to something as unknown and unpredictable as this particular pandemic and this virus with leadership and with vision and with execution.

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: A hundred percent. The other thing I'd add to that actually is that there were some other things that we were lucky enough to be able to do as an organization. That has helped different regions at different phases of the surge. Depending on the resources and people that we had, and that included everything from shipping ventilators and high flow devices down here, to sending staff from all around the organization to Abu Dhabi when they needed us. So, we also... Them and to organizations that weren't Cleveland Clinic. We did that too, but you're right. I think it's something we should be very proud of as an organization.

Brian Bolwell, MD: What do you think the opportunities are for Cleveland Clinic, Florida?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: Massive, massive. This is a huge state. Four and a half times bigger than Ireland. Twice as big as Ohio in population. Obviously, there's the geographic complexity and the Everglades in the middle, but, I think we have a very relatively small penetrance down here. And yet, there's a huge population. Southeast Florida has about 8 million people, and we are growing rapidly. And as we find, whenever we open facilities anywhere, we're strained to get people, and deal with access and volumes, and particularly pressurized, now, with staffing issues related to the pandemic. But, suffice it to say that our opportunities are significant. And whether it's in the Southeast, whether it's filling some of the gaps between our hospitals, providing more outpatient care, or looking at the Southwest coast as a next phase, I really think we have the opportunity to bring care to a lot more people and to grow as an organization.

And I think that's been part of the excitement for a lot of people to come and join the team now. Whether it's been from Cleveland Clinic, whether that's Ohio or Abu Dhabi, or other organizations around the US, the number of people who've been joining us has been exciting, honestly. And I think people see the opportunity and, and that, again, becomes part of the challenge because other organizations are seeing this. So the amount of investment that other organizations are putting into this region is huge, and it's a very rapidly and dynamically moving situation. That's why it takes a good team. We will persevere and execute. I think we've got great things in the future.

Brian Bolwell, MD: Well, I think that the whole organization thinks that the opportunity down there is certainly very, very large and looks forward to how we can continue to work on that and execute it. When you talked about change management, you talked about feedback, Conor. So, from a leadership perspective, how do you view feedback, and then how do you improve? How do you... How do you approach your own leadership style?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: I think both through formal and informal processes. The informal is, I think, important to have a good enough relationship with the people you work with, and that they can approach you with suggestions, and have conversations in the style such that they feel they can and, hopefully, do. And if not, you ask them. So, I think that becomes important. I have one-on-one meetings with all of my direct reports regularly, and those conversations are very important. And I think the relationships that you build for those managing the operations, essentially, are very important. And also, I must say, personally, very satisfying. At the end of the day, it's all about the people and those relationships. So, I think that's very important. Then the other side of it is... The formal side of it that you can, and arguably should, regularly get surveys back with suggestions, because some things will come up that people don't feel happy to say, no matter how open you are with them. So, I would suggest using both informal and formal means to try and get feedback on one's leadership style.

Brian Bolwell, MD: You've done that historically, and how has it changed your approach, if at all?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: Little bits. Little bits. I think sometimes there are, whether it's operational things you don't realize, or... And it's not always directly from a formal thing. I think it's... I've probably seen more of it through the informal conversations, actually. But you coax information out of people about groups that aren't functioning well enough that you might have to lend a hand with, and become more directly involved, around growth opportunities, around challenges that may be perceived, around operations or quality. So I think there have been lots of little things that come up over the years. And I... Honestly, for me, I think most of it comes through the informal conversations and communications.

Brian Bolwell, MD: There's a lot of different ways to teach leadership. Some are tactical. How to have crucial conversations or difficult conversations. Some are more... Focus on the softer side, emotional intelligence, and the importance of cultivating relationships with teams, which you have stressed, and which I totally agree with, to being more strategic about managing change. All are important. Personally, when I see leaders who are struggling, it's, frankly, usually because of interpersonal stuff, as opposed to tactical stuff. But one of your roles, of course, is developing leaders, wherever you are. And, certainly you're doing that at Cleveland Clinic, Florida, how do you approach it?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: Oh, I think it's critical. And it's from multiple perspectives. The selfish hat on it is that it's a pipeline of talent, but again, I refer back to what I said earlier. I do what I do because I like working with people. I think that's part of the opportunity, is mentoring, and building, and structuring how you help people. So, that's been something I've tried to do. I'm sure far from perfect, but I've tried to do for a long time is helping people evolve, and learn, and grow into leadership positions, and work with them.

So, it takes the time, and the conversation, and the personal coaching. I was lucky enough to have some fantastic mentors in my career. And I learned from them as well, but I think you have to structure it. It doesn't just happen. You have to very actively look after your team. You have to work with them. You have to talk to them. You have to coach them. You have to knock down barriers for them. And that's one of the things that becomes very important to do, is how can I help you succeed? Or, how can I help you complete some operational tasks? And again, it's being with them and asking the questions and being present, and reaching out to them in formal phone calls, and being approachable.

The one thing you do have to balance a little bit is the scalability of that. If you've too many people giving you phone calls, that can sometimes be a little hard to manage. So, that's a little bit of the balance that you do. I think that becomes very important. And as a leader, that you do have to manage yourself as well. And that means everything from your schedule to your health, honestly, particularly in certain roles, to other things. So, you have to swing it to actually coaching and managing yourself too. But coaching and managing the team is one of the most fun parts and greatest opportunities of leadership, honestly.

Brian Bolwell, MD: You've been down in Florida for a year. Lots of things have occurred. While it's very early in your tenure down there, what are you most proud of so far?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: It's such a long list. People, teams, culture, how hard people are working, and working together at a time of just a... Even just recently, this just ridiculous COVID surge with what already was a stabbing crisis. Proud of the people, I guess, would be what I'd guess. Proud of the people on the team.

Brian Bolwell, MD: Conor, as we wrap up, what sort of leadership pearls of wisdom would you like to share with our listeners, if you haven't already shared them. What would you like to leave them with?

Conor Delaney, MD, PhD: I remember giving a talk recently on this, and... I always try and think of leadership suggestions as those for yourself and those for your team. When you're thinking of yourself, it's the things that we've talked about. It's being polite and being thoughtful and respectful to your team. I think it's being responsive. I don't think I mentioned responsive before. I think that's a very important part of leadership is to be responsive to your team, and to complete tasks for them and not leave them hanging. That becomes very important. I think being calm and collaborative, and inclusive and transparent. Lot in that sentence, again, that comes down to tone and style as much as anything. I think when you do something then, using data to do it, trying not to make emotional decisions, or empirical decisions, but rather, trying to make decisions based on data, and having listened to the sides of the parties, and doing your best to make the right decision, and make the right decision with the team.

And then communicating that down. I probably didn't talk enough about seeking counsel from others, and including others in how you build your decisions. But, I think that's very important. I talked a little bit about it from the helping manage change side of it, but, I think it's also important in trying to make the right decision. And then for the team side of leadership, that's what we talked about, fostering the people and the relationships, and having the best people, and inspiring, and mentoring, and coaching them, and supporting them, and congratulating success, and talking to them about the great things that they've done, because there's often very many good things that they do. And there's one other thing I sometimes talk about, which we didn't mention, and that is leadership style. I think when you can manage it... Because it's probably a little different for every group, and every organization, and every situation. But I like the concept of more horizontal leadership styles, where you are part of the team, and you're not leading the team in a top-down manner. I think that becomes helpful and important.

Brian Bolwell, MD: All wonderful, wonderful leadership tenants and suggestions. This has been delightful. Conor, thank you so much. And for our listeners, thank you for listening. This has been a wonderful episode with Dr. Conor Delaney, and have a lovely day.

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Beyond Leadership. We welcome any topic, ideas, comments, or questions about this, or any past episodes, email us at executiveeducation@ccf.org, or by clicking on the link in the show notes. Thank you very much everybody, and have a wonderful day.