Does Birth Order Dictate Personality? with Kate Eshleman, PsyD

Podcast Transcript

John Horton:

Hey there, and welcome to another Health Essentials Podcast. I'm John Horton, your host.

If you have multiple children, you've probably already noticed differences in their personalities. The explanation behind that might be as easy as counting one, two, three. That's because many believe birth order, whether a child is the oldest, youngest or somewhere in the middle, sets the stage for kids to develop certain traits. Today, we're joined by pediatric psychologist Kate Eshleman to take a closer look at birth order theories. Dr Eshleman is one of the many experts at Cleveland Clinic who pop into our weekly podcast to teach us more about our families and ourselves. With that, let's see whether children are fated to act a certain way by the order of their appearance.

Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Eshleman. Thanks for stopping by podcast-central to chat.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

Great. Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

John Horton:

I've really been looking forward to today's conversation, if only to settle a few debates with my younger brother. I'm guessing, though, we're not alone in some sibling banter over what birth order means.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

Yes. I think many people like to think that they fit at least with the positive attributes of the description of birth order.

John Horton:

Exactly. I know there's no shortage of theories and research regarding birth order's effect on personality. As we get started here, can you explain just the general concept and give us some background as to where this all started?

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

Sure. The general concept of birth order theory is that where in the family the child is born really is going to predict or determine what their personality style is like. Where this information came from … a long time ago, there was a psychoanalyst, Alfred Adler, who described birth order and the attributes assigned to each of those placements in the sibling lineup.

John Horton:

Yeah, it's so unique because I know everybody has this. If you have siblings, you have these little things going back and forth. You can see where that just develops. In looking at birth order theory and how it may influence people, it only seems right to start with the first kid. Let's talk about the signs and characteristics of oldest child syndrome.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

I think, a lot of times, the oldest child is described, really, again, in those primarily positive attributes — bright and intelligent, a leader, very conscientious, maybe perfectionist, sometimes, a little bossy, but really a leader, a bright person, someone who's probably going to be successful.

John Horton:

I like the way that all sounds because that's me. Now with those traits, are those things that just you see when the firstborn is young or is that something that carries through life?

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

I think it can be both. A lot of times, you do see those personality traits start to develop, but in general, personality can vary over time, and it depends a lot on life experiences and what that person goes through.

John Horton:

Well, so we hit the oldest child. Let's go to the opposite end of the age spectrum, and can you give us some insight about being the youngest child and what that might mean?

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

Sure. A lot of times, the young child, which, again, generally positive, but can be described as very social, outgoing, a little more fun-loving and maybe cares a little bit less about performance and some of those perfectionistic tendencies, maybe sometimes, some attention-seeking, but generally positive, fun and outgoing.

John Horton:

Now, when you think about these traits, is this something that just ... I think, it's just not happening because of the order you arrive, it's what's happening in the household around you and just all the dynamics taking place with more people.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

That's exactly right. I think there's a lot of things that contribute to our personality development and maintenance over time. Some of that is what we're born with, that genetic piece and temperament style, and the events, specific events, but also how kids are parented and how much time and energy and what's going on in the parents' lives as well.

John Horton:

That's always what comes up. I have three children and I have to say, I hear from my oldest all the time that we were so much easier on the youngest, which is one of those things that maybe goes into building these theories as to why people are a certain way.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

That's right. When we think about parents and they have their first children, parents are more anxious, they want to do things right, they probably inherently have more time on their hands to focus on the first child. They're younger by nature, too. So there's a lot of things that are happening when a first child is born versus when any subsequent children are born.

John Horton:

My oldest, my daughter was always convinced that we just had way too much time to spend on her, and by the time we had our last kid, it was just like, "Yeah, do whatever you want, man. We're tired, we're done with this,” and that would be why he's so carefree.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

That's right. Well, you also learn over time that they're not breakable. All that parental anxiety that's present up front and you focus on the child, and then, you'll start to learn they fall down, they get back up. They spend the night at friend's house, things are OK. They're not quite as fragile as we maybe thought. Maybe they don't need as much care, which changes our parenting style as well.

John Horton:

It definitely does. You're always so worried with those first ones, and you're right by the last one, you're like, "Eh, yeah. It hit the floor, you can eat it."

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

As it turns out, those are maybe the ones we should worry about more then.

John Horton:

We've talked about the oldest and the youngest, which always seem to be the ones that get the most attention. I don't want to forget the middle child, and I know that's always the belief that they're kind of forgotten. What do we know about the traits associated with them?

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

Oftentimes, the middle child is described as the moderator, the peacekeeper, the go-between, more independent maybe because they feel like they have to be, but the go-between. A little bit, again, go with the flow, a little bit of an easier temperament style. Maybe sometimes, has to seek their own attention because they're feeling like they're not getting it themselves.

John Horton:

They also have a reputation for being a little more competitive, too, right? I'd imagine that's because you're just always trying to catch up to that older sibling.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

That's right. One might feel that they have to compete for that attention, but not only competing with the older, so as you described, living up to, but then also, there's a younger one, so there's always somebody that you have to be compared to.

John Horton:

You're trying to catch the one that's ahead of you and trying to keep the one that's behind you in their spot.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

Behind you. Yeah.

John Horton:

Oh, man. Let's say you have no siblings. If you're an only child, are you typically a combination of all these traits we've talked about, or do you lean more one way or the other?

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

I think, ultimately, you end up having some of the attributes of any of the children, but oftentimes, much more like that oldest child. Probably described as more mature, bright, having some leadership abilities, more conscientious and maybe perfectionistic. I think those are many of the attributes attributed to the only child, but also can be competitive with others having to seek attention at times, so probably a combination of both or all.

John Horton:

When we say this, I know we talked about, with the oldest child, but with all of them, these traits, do they set in motion just a way you're going to behave throughout life and into adulthood and all of that, and just get you on a course?

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

It's a complicated answer, and so the answer is both yes and no. Because you develop these personality styles, which can change over time, but also how our personality shines through and how we interact with others also determines how others interact with us. If we have this natural interaction style, people are going to tend to respond to that, which also helps maintain it, but overall personality style can shift and change over time.

John Horton:

All right, so now that we've gone over these stereotypes, which are always fun to talk about, and the source of a lot of debate, let's get to the big question: Are birth order theories true or is this something that just spices up the conversation at family dinners?

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

It is funny and it's a great conversation because there's this idea of confirmation bias. When we look at our own families, you could say, “Oh, the oldest, that totally fits,” or at least parts of it do because it makes sense. If we step back and look at the literature, ultimately, there is nothing to determine that these are entirely accurate. Some aspects are likely true, but in most recent studies, when differences have been found, they've been minimal or nonsignificant, so there's really nothing behind or at least no hard evidence behind that these are entirely true.

John Horton:

Well, and you can see, it sounds like this is very similar to maybe horoscopes or things like that where you read it and you always kind of find there's a kernel of truth that you want to hang on to, but it's more just for fun conversation and just to settle some family arguments.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

That's right. Absolutely.

John Horton:

Early on, we had talked about how some of these ideas are created because of how parents parent. Are there things that you can do with your kids to avoid some of these stereotypes blossoming?

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

I think, and I always say, everything we talk about is much easier said than done, but the goal is to parent the child that you have. While kids are not, or people aren't necessarily born with personalities, we are born with temperaments that start from an early age, and you can see that even in infancy. Each child is going to have a temperament style as they get older. Ideally, you're parenting the child they have and responding to his or her needs. We look at opportunities. Certainly, every opportunity for every child, even within a family, isn't going to be the same, but the goal would be to give the children similar opportunities to avoid any of those stereotypes or that sibling rivalry — well, he got to do this or she didn't have to do that. We try and parent them the same.

John Horton:

Well, and that is what's hard. I know looking at raising our kids here, you realize they had different lifestyles to a certain point because of where my wife and I were in our lives and what you have as far as financial resources or how your jobs are or things like that. Just the world's always changing, so how you parent changes. You almost wonder if some of these theories came up as a way to explain away that or just make people feel better about what they were doing.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

Sure. Well, I also think looking back in the early 1900s when these theories were described, lives were not as long, women weren't working, education was different. Lots of things were different when this first started being talked about, and perhaps, at least at the time, it made a lot more sense. But just as you described, things are very different now. I even think about … a really concrete example would be the impact of the pandemic, which was a totally external event. It had nothing to do with parenting, but experiences that kids had at different ages or that were born during that time and the impact that would have on those children's experiences and temperament, style and personality — I just think that's a great example.

John Horton:

That is, and I have a feeling in 10 years we're going to be doing a podcast looking back on what the pandemic did to everybody and how the ripple effect of that.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

Absolutely.

John Horton:

Actually, birth order, it's just a fascinating topic and this has been just a great discussion and I'm sure it's answered a lot of questions people have on this whole topic. Is there anything else you'd like to add, I guess, before we say goodbye?

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

No, I think, again, just love those kids up and parent the kids that you have and take the pieces that are helpful and leave the rest behind.

John Horton:

Great advice. Thank you so much for coming in Dr. Eshleman, and look forward to having you back on.

Dr. Kate Eshleman:

Thanks so much for having me. It's been great.

John Horton:

Birth order theory is certainly fun to talk about, but don't put too much stock in how it shapes personality. Consider it one small piece in the giant puzzle explaining why people act a certain way. Apologies if I come across as being a bit pushy on that explanation, I am a first-born after all.

If you liked what you heard today, please hit the subscribe button and leave a comment to share your thoughts. Until next time, be well.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for listening to Health Essentials, brought to you by Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland Clinic Children's. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or visit clevelandclinic.org/hepodcast. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace the advice of your own physician.