Climbing Toward Better Fitness with Katie Lawton, MEd

Podcast Transcript

John Horton:

Hey there, and welcome to another Health Essentials Podcast. I'm John Horton, your host.

If you want to take your cardio workouts up a notch, the key may be to just go up. That's because exercises that involve some form of climbing can quickly send your heart rate soaring while absolutely taxing muscles and torching calories.

Today, we're going to talk about how to get the most out of two gravity-fighting workout machines: stair steppers and vertical climbers. Our guide on this uphill journey will be exercise physiologist Katie Lawton, our regular guest on the podcast who always finds a way to make us sweat. She's one of the many experts at Cleveland Clinic who join us weekly to chat about living healthier. Now, let's see what she has to say about taking our fitness routines to new heights.

Welcome back to the podcast, Katie. Glad you are here because I am ready for a new workout adventure.

Katie Lawton:

Well, I'm ready to talk all about it.

John Horton:

As anyone who has climbed a few flights of stairs or trekked uphill knows, hauling yourself to a higher plane just ain't easy. I'm always amazed at how quickly you get out of breath on even the slightest of inclines.

Katie Lawton:

Our body actually has to use more oxygen to actually get to all those muscles, and that's why our heart rate has to beat a little bit faster.

John Horton:

Is it just gravity? I mean, I can't believe it's doing that much.

Katie Lawton:

Yeah. Yeah, and actually we're using the same muscles that we use when we're walking. It's just now that we have to use them much harder or it's just much more difficult, and we have to go against gravity to go up into those higher heights, and so our body actually needs more oxygen to get to those muscles. That's why our heart rate actually starts increasing as we're also using those stairs.

John Horton:

Yeah. That gravity thing is just a killer.

Katie Lawton:

Yeah.

John Horton:

You realize that whenever you have to haul up to the third floor for something.

Katie Lawton:

Absolutely.

John Horton:

As you're going uphill on anything, we're talking stair steppers, vertical climbers, whatever, your body's just working harder to do that. Does that always translate into a bigger calorie burn?

Katie Lawton:

Absolutely. Our muscles actually use that energy from the action to break down energy to be able to be used. That actually, in turn, will use more calories as we are using those stairs, absolutely.

John Horton:

Do we have anything … how many more calories do you burn walking up a flight of stairs versus just walking in a straight level line?

Katie Lawton:

Yeah, so I don't know if I have that answer exactly. There is a calculator that we can do to find that out. The intensity as to which we're also climbing up the stairs versus intensity as to which we're also walking will make a difference. Obviously, if we're sprinting upstairs versus in a flat pace, I think those are also probably not comparable either actually. We kind of use METs as it's a metabolic equivalent to try and figure out as to what intensity or how many calories we can kind of figure out we're actually burning during those modes.

John Horton:

I always think when I'm going upstairs, I'm hauling something.

Katie Lawton:

You are, you're hauling.

John Horton:

I moved enough kids into dorms to know that.

Katie Lawton:

You are. I mean, you have to think about hauling your own body weight. We have to think about all that weight. We're actually physically moving up as part of that movement.

John Horton:

Since it seems like just by going up and climbing, you're working harder just to do it, it's easy to see why that can be incorporated into workout routines. Today, we're going to look at a pair of these kinds of climbing-focused exercise equipment options that you often see at gyms and fitness centers. Let's start with kinds of stair climbers or stair steppers. For those who aren't familiar with these machines, walk us through what they are.

Katie Lawton:

The StairMasters™ look like a set of stairs and it's kind of like a revolving set of stairs that you are continuously climbing. Then, the stair climber is one, it kind of looks like elliptical steps that you're going to kind of shift your weight back and forth on. Either one of those is a different way to increase intensity for cardiovascular exercise rather than just walking itself, like we had talked about. Walking on an incline on a treadmill, going up is another option as well.

John Horton:

The stair climbers are like those steps. It's like an escalator that's not carrying you anywhere. You just have to keep treading, trodding along.

Katie Lawton:

Correct.

John Horton:

Whereas the other one is more … it sounds like, more like an elliptical machine where you're just kind?

Katie Lawton:

Yeah, but you're not going in an elliptical-type movement. It's kind of more of an up-and-down type of movement, but yeah.

John Horton:

I take it if you just walk up and down stairs, you get the same sort of workout, too, if you want to tackle your apartment building.

Katie Lawton:

That is another option as well, yeah. Using your stairs at home, using stadium steps, boxes. I don't know if you've seen gyms that have big elephant stands or I sometimes will use a weight bench to step up on and step down. That's also a really good way to get that type of intensity in there as well.

John Horton:

Well, we're looking at the machines, and with any of these, the stair workouts, what are the health and fitness benefits of just going up, up, up, up?

Katie Lawton:

Cardiovascular benefits. The benefits to anything where we're increasing our heart rate has a lot of benefits for anything, obviously, cardiovascular-wise, and any type of heart disease reduction as well. Cholesterol, blood pressure are also in there as well. Osteopenia, osteoporosis, mental health … is also a really good reason to do cardiovascular exercise.

John Horton:

Are stairs lower impact, too? You always hear that if you're going to be doing that, maybe it's not totally low, but it's lower than some of the higher-intensity activities you might have.

Katie Lawton:

It's definitely lower-impact than running, I would say. I think also, depending on the step height that you're also using and how big or how fast you're trying to go, I think, is always the bigger piece to that as well. Probably not for everybody as well. Maybe if you have hip arthritis or knee arthritis, I don't know if it's something that's going to be tolerable. I think it's worth trying because sometimes, just walking on a flat plane may not be challenging enough for them, so we may have to find something that's going to increase their heart rate just a little bit further. Yeah, I do think trying a stair climber or a StairMaster would be a good option.

John Horton:

Yeah. What about strength gains? I mean, what kind of muscles are you working going up stairs or on one of these climbing things like that, as opposed to just walking on a level plane?

Katie Lawton:

Your glutes, which are kind of like your butt muscles, should be the primary movers. The quadriceps — so they're the ones on the front of your thighs. Your calves are another really big one, and your core to help you keep you upright as well.

John Horton:

OK. I'd imagine that doing … all those muscles … sounds like there are things that can really help with balance and things that become issues as you get a little older.

Katie Lawton:

Yeah. Now the other factor is, too, is when people are maybe using the stair climber, they're probably holding on, so that if you wanted to challenge your balance a little bit more when you're using those machines, you maybe want to try it and not hold on when you're doing those activities, too. Yeah, I mean again, if you're not holding on, then yeah, there could be some balance impact with that as well.

John Horton:

Now, you had mentioned that because you're working harder, I take it, you don't need as much time for a stair workout as opposed to if you're just walking on a treadmill.

Katie Lawton:

I kind of have to be careful, right, because I think everyone's … the intensity is also going to be, again, the main factor. I don't want people to think that just because they're getting on a stair climber at a really slow pace, that means they have to do less. I think we have to kind of do a self-evaluation to say, "OK, I think that was moderate-intensity versus a heavy-intensity workout," and that's how we can kind of indicate how long we should essentially be going for on those. I think I have to be careful in saying, "Yeah, you don't have to do as much if you're doing a stair climber," but at the same time, the intensity piece is going to be really important to also take into consideration.

John Horton:

It sounds like it's one of those things at the same intensity, walking versus stair climbing, the stair climbing is going to be a little more juice to it.

Katie Lawton:

A little more juice, but still, again, depending on how fast you're moving on the stairs, it still might be a moderate intensity, but just a little bit heavy. If we're sprinting up the stairs, then we're talking kind of more of that heavier intensity, which would really require a lot less as well.

John Horton:

Katie, I saw that there is one particular stair workout, the 25-7-2 StairMaster plan, that gets a lot of attention on social media. What is that program and is it something that people should try?

Katie Lawton:

Yeah, I believe it's 27 minutes at a level seven, two days a week.

John Horton:

Yeah, 25 minutes, level seven, twice a week. Yeah.

Katie Lawton:

Yeah. I mean I think as long as we're consistent with it, I am happy about it. I think that consistency piece is really where we're going to notice a lot more benefits for our health. If we're not consistent with it and if you're going to try it once a week here, once a week there, you probably won't see the benefits of it. If it's keeping you continuously doing the exercise, great.

John Horton:

It sounds like it's one of those things where if it inspires you and you feel attached to it or it makes you get on a couple of times a week.

Katie Lawton:

Or just change things up so we don't get bored, I think is another piece, too, that can really help people continuously trying to do cardio.

John Horton:

Are there other just stair routines that you recommend to people? Sometimes, you get on those machines and they have all those pre-programmed things you can do where you're going to tackle the Empire State Building or something like that.

Katie Lawton:

Yeah, I mean, any one of those pre-programmed ones, I actually kind of like myself, because it makes the time go by just a little bit faster because constantly going through some of the intervals and you can kind of see the light is at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes, where we're doing those types of things, there's usually mixed in with heavy intensities mixed in with some moderate intensities or — I'm sorry, high intensities — mixed in with some moderate intensities that again, will give us some downtime and then kind of ramp things back up on us a little bit as well.

John Horton:

How much do you recommend that people kind of adjust that as they're doing a stair workout? I mean, you can increase the speed or I don't know if there's a resistance setting on those that you can do, but is that something you should kind of toy with as you're doing it?

Katie Lawton:

I'm always big on making sure that we're changing things up with our exercise. Yeah, if we're getting a little comfortable with it and if it just feels like we're just kind of moving and we're not really challenging ourselves, I always recommend, as long as it's health wise, it's safe for us, that we can try and play around with some of the intensities a little bit.

John Horton:

Now, let's shift over to vertical climbers, which definitely look a bit more intimidating if you've ever seen them at a gym. What are these contraptions?

Katie Lawton:

They almost look like, I almost want to say you're climbing up a wall almost more or less, but I also — I kind of almost see them as those NordicTrack™ things that they used to have way back in the seventies and eighties that I remember seeing everyone's basements a little bit — but more in a vertical type position where our hands and our legs are moving at the same time.

John Horton:

Sounds like you are kind of Spiderman. It looks like you're kind of going up the wall like that, right?

Katie Lawton:

Exactly. Exactly. Yep. I think your knees and your hands are going up at the same time on each side so you're kind of climbing up. You can kind of vary the intensities with those as well.

John Horton:

It sounds like with these, you're using your arms. Whereas with the stairs, the stair steppers or the stair climbers, it's more of a leg workout. With these, your arms are kind of in there, too, because that's part of the whole operation, right?

Katie Lawton:

Right. Now, we're going to be using a lot more energy because we're also going to be using our arms to do the same amount of work.

John Horton:

The vertical climbers, it sounds like is much more of a whole-body workout.

Katie Lawton:

Yes, absolutely. A lot more intense as well.

John Horton:

When you compare a vertical climbing sort of workout to a stair stepper, how are they similar and how are they different?

Katie Lawton:

Well, we're still using our legs kind of in that same motion when we're bringing our knees up and kind of pushing down. Now with the VersaClimber™, we're using our arms as we're also doing it as well. Whereas the stair climber, we're not actually using our arms as much and we're primarily just using our legs. It's still going to have a cardiovascular impact on it either way we kind of look at these.

John Horton:

Yeah, so it sounds like with the vertical climber, you're going to have a higher calorie burn. It's just a much more intense workout because you have so many more muscles engaged that you're using.

Katie Lawton:

Yeah. More than likely, you're probably not going to be on the VersaClimber for nearly as long as you're going to be on a stair climber.

John Horton:

Now, if someone is looking to start using a vertical climber or a stair stepper, what's the first step aside from stepping up?

Katie Lawton:

Well, of course, if you've been exercising before, I think it's not new to us as far as the exercise goes. It should be safe for us to do those types of things.

Now, if we're new to exercise and haven't really done anything, we, again, want to make sure that it's safe for us to do the exercise.

If we're looking to change things up as far as our exercise goes and if we're just walking and want to try and increase the intensity a little bit, there's really not much to change as far as using a stair climber. You just have to have access to one. If you have a gym or something along those lines and you just want to try one out, I always recommend just trying them out.

John Horton:

Well, and it sounds like if you're kind of new to exercise and you want to start with a stair climber, you just … maybe you keep it a little slower pace and kind of build up a little bit.

Katie Lawton:

They do move pretty quick, so you have to be careful as to how quickly you start ramping up and pressing some buttons on there. They can pedal pretty quickly and they'll change really quick on you. Yeah, you want to make sure that you're starting a little bit later and kind of increasing the intensity or the speed slowly.

John Horton:

Yeah, pressing buttons on those machines can get you into one of those viral videos pretty quickly if you're not paying attention. If you aren't new to exercise, it sounds like a vertical climber might not be the starting point that you really should be looking at.

Katie Lawton:

No, I think that might actually … I'd be afraid that it would scare you away from doing the exercise versus doing the exercise. New to exercise, I would probably actually maybe just start with some walking your treadmill incline or something along those lines, unless you really feel inclined to trying to do the stair climber, which is fine as well. Yeah, either way. If whatever gets somebody started into exercise, and if they're really motivated to try it because they think they might really like it, then by all means.

John Horton:

As beneficial as both of these sound like they are, are there some people who should avoid those types of workouts?

Katie Lawton:

I think, orthopaedically, is going to be a big factor, especially more when we're talking about the stair climber with hip and knee-type orthopaedic issues. I'm not too sure, especially with the VersaClimber because our arms are involved, shoulder or pain orthopaedic issues, too, because we're raising our arms up over our head, but I think you can kind of limit as to which range you're also moving your arms when you're on those. You don't have to go through a full range when you're also using the VersaClimber.

Any type of heart disease by any means or any concern for potential any heart disease, is, obviously, going to be another factor that we probably want to limit some of, at least maybe even the intensity as to what we're doing some of these activities.

John Horton:

Yeah. This kind of gets back to I think what you had alluded to before where if you have an existing health issue, whether it's an injury, you said a hip replacement or knee replacement or shoulder issues, you're probably already working with somebody or have a doc, you should probably talk to them and ask about the wisdom of starting that sort of program and how you can do it safely.

Katie Lawton:

Correct.

John Horton:

Now, how often can you do a stair or vertical climbing workout? Is this a daily thing if you want to? Is it something best done a few times a week and make sure you have that recovery time built in?

Katie Lawton:

Again, it always just comes back to that intensity as to what we're doing the exercise. Again, if it's high intensity every time you do it, we probably want to be making sure that we are getting our day of rest in between. If it's at light to moderate intensity, you can do it on a daily basis if you wanted to. Also, duration. I think if you're doing it at a high intensity for a little bit longer, you're absolutely going to want to make sure that we're getting a day of recovery in between.

John Horton:

Well, as usual, Katie, you've given us a game plan to level up our fitness. Before we say our goodbyes, is there anything else you'd like to add when it comes to trying out a stair stepper or vertical climber or I guess any other new contraption?

Katie Lawton:

No, just I think, again, as we talked about before, just making sure that you're getting clearance from your doctor, whether it's orthopaedic or from a cardiologist or your primary care physician, before starting exercise if you're not. Don't be afraid to try these things. I do think that it's always worth trying them to see if we're actually going to like them first. Unless you try them, we really don't know. Like you said, the VersaClimber seems a little bit more intimidating. You really don't know until you've tried it to see if you're really going to enjoy using that as a piece of equipment as well.

John Horton:

All right. Well, I'm going to tell you right now, I'm going to be running up the stairs right after this to at least go get another cup of coffee for the day. I'll consider that the start of my stair workout.

Katie, as always, it's wonderful talking with you. I always appreciate just the inspirational ideas you throw out there. Like I said, I just always want to get out there and get moving after we get done talking.

Katie Lawton:

All right. Well, let me know how those stairs go.

John Horton:

Take care, Katie.

Katie Lawton:

Bye.

John Horton:

If your exercise routine is feeling a little flat, consider giving stair steppers or vertical climbers a try. Either machine can get your fitness level trending in an upward direction.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for listening to Health Essentials brought to you by Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland Clinic Children’s.

John Horton:

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Speaker 3:

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