Veteran Leader: Taking Care of Those in Our Charge

Podcast Transcript

Emily Grimes: Welcome to Learning to Lead, a leadership development podcast by Cleveland Clinic. I'm Emily Grimes, and today, in honor of Memorial Day, we're thinking about all of those who have served our country and are no longer with us. We're also thinking about those who have served and are still with us now, as colleagues and fellow caregivers at Cleveland Clinic. How has their experience in the military impacted the way they lead? My colleague in Talent Acquisition and marine veteran, Andrew Guenther sat down with Pat Rios, Executive Director of Buildings and Properties. Pat was a Navy Captain and he and Andrew discuss his military experience and how it connects to his leadership at Cleveland Clinic. Here's their conversation.

Andrew Guenther: So, Pat, great to talk to you. Happy to talk to the Learning to Lead podcast here for GLLI. I wanted to jump right in here and get started. Can you give us a little background? Tell us what branch of the military you were in and what you did.

Pat Rios: Andy. Hey, thank you very much for the invitation to participate in this. Always a great opportunity to talk about leadership. So I was in the Navy, United States Navy. I was what is known as a Civil Engineer Corps Officer. And I had the privilege of leading Seabees Navy construction engineers. And I've had the opportunity on two separate occasions. First as a battalion executive officer, second in command and later as a commanding officer of a Seabee battalion in Iraq, Afghanistan, Horn of Africa. Exciting times. And then I've had other leadership experiences in between.

Andrew Guenther: Outstanding. Can you tell us and give us a little bit of background? So what you do now and how that experience in the Navy is translated to the Cleveland Clinic.

Pat Rios: Great question. So part of being a Civil Engineer Corps officer, when you're not commanding military troops, conducting what we called expeditionary construction out in whatever place we happen to be in at that time, part of my job was to manage, what I do at the Cleveland Clinic, just for the Navy. So I built, designed, built, planned, did maintenance, did environmental services, real estate, everything that is part of my portfolio here at the Cleveland Clinic is something I've done just working in different types of facilities, other than healthcare, healthcare was just one component of what we did.

Andrew Guenther: Excellent. So, how has that military experience helped you to be a better leader here at Cleveland Clinic?

Pat Rios: I guess I would answer that by saying one is you can't beat the experience. Right off the top of my head, I'd say, just what you're confronted with every day, what you have to deal with and the fact that your career moves through successive jobs very quickly causes you to grow up quickly and have to deal with things and get a lot of experience. So experience is key. I'd say on top of the experience that you get, the military has a great way of just framing and thinking about things. I always believe in thinking about whatever, pick a subject, thinking about it in advance and creating a great rubric or framework to approach a problem. And I can always, even today, go in my brain and just kick back and come up with some rubric I've used in the military that'll help me take an issue that I'm facing today and construct a solution following that rubric.

So they're just very disciplined about how they approach problems, how they engage in answering questions. And honestly, usually the framework leads you on a journey that gets you to a great answer.

And then on top of that, I guess I'd say obviously the preparing for leadership is the exposure to people, people of all different kinds and dealing with people because people are so important in this business.

Andrew Guenther: After all in healthcare now, especially with Cleveland Clinic, that's our backbone, that's we're all about, is helping people out and making sure we're putting patients first and giving them a world-class experience.

Pat Rios: Absolutely. That and taking care of our caregivers. Part of being in the military that's critical is always taking care of your subordinates, taking care of your troops, the people that are in your charge. And one thing I've always admired about the clinic is just the focus from Dr. Mihaljevic, all the way down to the lowest supervisor in our organization, how focused they are in taking care of the people that work for them, people in their charge.

Andrew Guenther: Absolutely. To your point, I always like to reflect on how our veteran candidates can enter the enterprise a lot easier because you can take that same team or a mission team teammates self-ethos and plug and play and be successful here at Cleveland Clinic. So, I think that's helped people that transitioned into here from the military and also helps to retain them because when you come here, ultimately it's not about just you, it's about what are we doing to make a difference, how are we adding value, and then how are we taking care of each other. Which is pretty cool, I think. There's not a lot of places where you can do that.

Pat Rios: Absolutely. The ethos of the Cleveland Clinic is incredible and I have to tell you, just in my time, now approaching four years here, I've really come to admire that ethos of how we approach the care foils, very clearly aligned with the ethos that I was taught as a military officer to take care of myself, take care of my troops, take care of my equipment, take care of my institution. And you can't fail if you follow that approach to life as well.

Andrew Guenther: Absolutely. Earlier you were talking about framing problems and how you learned how to do that as a leader, when you're taking that forward here with Cleveland Clinic, how have you framed a problem? And can you walk us through a mental map for that, and how you can build that framework and how others might be able to use that to solve problems in their areas?

Pat Rios: There are just so many rubrics that you can use. I'll give you a basic rubric when you're communicating to people that something that needs to get accomplished. We used to have an acronym, Andy, you're going to smile when I say this SMEAC, right? Always communicate in terms of the situation, the mission, the execution of that mission, the administration and logistics behind that mission and the last thing, the communications of the team and how they're going to plan and communicate through it. We get thrown fast reacting situations where you might have 24 or 48 hours, and as a leader, a lot of times a lot of leaders will spend a lot of leadership time thinking about a problem.

And before they communicate to people that are working for them, "Hey, I have these tasks for you to do." And there was a basic rubric that was one-third, two thirds. If you had three days, as a leader you had one day to communicate what needed to get done and you had to use that same day to understand what they were proposing to you and to either comment on it or approve it. And so two days went to the folks that are doing the legwork behind the plan, you want to give them as much time so that they can be responsive and they can have their time to think about things. So, those are two very basic military rubrics that I find useful in everyday life. How do I communicate SMEAC? And then also, how do I allow the team to wrap their head around a problem? And how do they communicate back to me?

Andrew Guenther: Outstanding. Thank you. Talking about leadership, managing people, being able to build frameworks for solutions and things, is there a story that you could maybe share with us from your time in the Navy that was either a coming of age story or something where you really learned a lesson that maybe we might be able to take something away from?

Pat Rios: The example I'll give you is when I first stood a watch as officer of the deck underway on the USS Pharris, FF-1094. And I remember, once again, incredible training, both schoolhouse training, on the job training, supervised mentoring and training, but then nothing is like that moment when you salute the person that you're relieving, and you say, "I have the deck and the con." And suddenly that person descends down to go to sleep in their cabin and you are it, middle of the night, you're going down through the Red Sea and you're on your own. At that point I'm 23 years old and there were 275 souls sleeping under my feet and they were counting on my decision-making.

And no matter how much training I got, schoolhouse, on the job training, nothing prepares you for that moment when you are in charge.

Andrew Guenther: Absolutely.

Pat Rios: And the stress of being in charge and suddenly the seriousness of the charge you've been given. And for me, it was a huge at that young age coming of age for me like, "Wow, this is a serious business. People could die in what I'm doing," and it makes you grow up quickly. That's the only comment I'll make on that. I remember the first time I assumed command of a Seabee battalion. And I remember, I had great mentors in the Navy, Bill Peacock being one of them, and I remember saying, "Hey, I can do this command thing. I can be in charge of 650 Seabees, and we can go in harm's way." But I remember the night after I raised my hand in salute and said, "I relieve you, sir." And I took command of the unit. And that was a defining moment as an adult where I am on my own and I have to figure it out on my own. And that sense of being alone in that process is very, both chilling and inspiring and empowering. So, lot to be said there.

Andrew Guenther: Absolutely. What do you think might be a very important lesson that the military taught you about leadership?

Pat Rios: I guess I would start off with, you can be a charge and you can be alone, but sooner or later, you have to trust and empower somebody to get things done. And the power of people, the power of letting people figure things out on their own and let them wrestle with their own coming of age moment and just observing them and letting them do their jobs. I used to joke to myself, "Well, not how I would have done it, but it got done and that's what was important." And giving feedback, but to me, the power of people, the power of relationship between education and training officers and experienced non-commissioned officers and the interaction between the two of them, and the same for me when I was in charge, having someone that was a sounding board that had done it before and could give you feedback on how things were going.

So, the power of people, the power of human interaction, the power of relationships and how important they are to sustain you in the most critical of moments. If I have one leadership thing is, even though you're in charge, your accountable and responsible, being able to let go to people that work for you to execute their missions and be comfortable that they're going to be able to do it.

Andrew Guenther: Absolutely. You mentioned, a little earlier, having a couple of impactful mentors, and I know you've done that through our Hero Experience Program. You've conducted a lot of one-on-one interviews with transitioning veterans to give them your perspective and your background and maybe some tips and some network nodes and things that they could do to continue to build their careers hopefully here with Cleveland Clinic. I wanted to ask a little bit more in terms of that mentor, mentorship mindset, how has that helped bringing that from the Navy and how have you applied it here? I know we just talked about the Hero Experience, but in what other ways might have you done that?

Pat Rios: Well, one, you talked about mentor / mentee with regard to the Hero Experience, and military is great at many things, but it is, to a certain extent, very insular. And you're in your own community, your own culture, et cetera. When you're exiting that culture that's provided for you for so many years, particularly, I was in the Navy for 30 years, so imagine exiting the protection of that culture and going out into the world. To me, my role in mentoring those Hero Program folks is more about getting them comfortable of where their experience relates to what, who they're going to encounter in the future. Second thing I'd say is also talking to them about communicating their experiences in terms that the rest of the world will understand. The military has its own culture, its own famous jargon, and a lot of times you're just sitting there educating a young person about their experience and telling them that, "Hey, frame it this way. Don't frame it that way." Someone that's not been in the military isn't going to understand what you're saying.

And I guess the other one is offering them an example and some comfort in that they can do it. That you can exit an organization that you spent a lot of time with and that you grew up in, and you can transition into an organization and you can succeed. There's that uncertainty that because you'd never have done it before. You can be as confident as you want, but there's always going to be that little bit of an edge and I view my role in that relationship is to take a little bit of that edge off. And honestly, I would say just in general, mentoring is being the reality check and being the sounding board for younger folks and sharing your experiences through stories and also sometimes giving feedback when feedback is required and helping them think through things that they might not have been as successful as they would like at. And just getting them to learn from that experience and think about it differently. That's critical for the mentor, mentee relationship.

Andrew Guenther: I think you're definitely right about that. I think being able to help people find where they can add value, unpack those experiences, have that sounding board, somebody that can take and digest and hear all of that, but then also, like you said, provide that feedback. I mean, maybe it's not a specific problem or a specific struggle or something, or even if it's celebrating something positive, I think it's more of, “hey, I can understand where you've been and what you've been up to, let me help interpret some of that for you and then let me give you a feedback to better apply that, let's focus on where you can find value,” which is great. And I think without that relationship a lot of people do struggle, but I think that's one of the things that we're doing that sets us apart and some of the military experience that sets us apart by bringing that mentor mindset to all of our leadership positions.

Pat Rios: That's the other thing, I guess, another comment I'd make to you Andy, because a lot of times when you come across a fellow military person, you're able to clearly understand where they've been, what they've done, there's an unwritten bond and communication associated with that. In a lot of cases, when they don't have that bond, they're uncertain how to communicate and you definitely need to sometimes guide them. And I know I'm as guilty as the next guy about that is maybe not have communicated as clearly as I could have to someone that did not have the same frame of reference and background that I did. So I think it's just important to teaching those skills to former military people that are operating in a civilian context about how to talk to folks and not to assume things that are obvious that may not be obvious because they may not have had the same experiences that you did. Can't take anything for granted.

Andrew Guenther: That's right. And I wonder how many people are going to go Google SMEAC.

Pat Rios: Sorry.

Andrew Guenther: No, it's great. It's a great framework to use. And it's no different than in the civilian world, if you haven't heard something, but because of our shared similar backgrounds with the military we can smile when we say it, but it's a useful tool. That's something that, to your point, learning to build and communicate effectively with everybody around you, that way everybody has access to those experiences and we can all learn something from it, I think is very important.

Pat Rios: So I'll give you a quick example, maybe useful. It was buildings plus design. We were working early on in the pandemic and there was a lot going on, set up testing centers, expand our laboratory capability, plan for these emergent health care facilities and plan dozens of sites simultaneously. Everybody was activated, but there was no organizing principle behind that. And so I remember just a cacophony of people talking, and it reminded me of being on the bridge of a ship and a joint operation center. Finally, everybody was talking and I said, "Stop." And we went around and we said, "Everybody's going to take a panel on this board and it's going to be their status board. And we're going to go around the room, everybody has three minutes to talk and they're going to talk about their issues and people will have three minutes to ask questions."

And we called it the lightning round every day. Twice a day we would get together, first thing in the morning and at the conclusion of the night to plan the next day's work. I wouldn't have thought of that lightning round, that effective communication amongst leaders, and then issuing out tasks, making out decisions, if I had not had the training that I had in the military. And it was very helpful to the team to know that this was where they could bring their issues and I'd get resolution immediately. If they had concerns, they could communicate laterally with their peers.

It was a great coming of age moment from the organization I was leading at the time. And I had only been in charge of the team for a week before the pandemic set in. So it was a brave new world we embarked upon, but was rooted in the military and actually people ended up enjoying it and we became more effective to the point where we folded that lightning round into what we call our production huddle. Once every other week we got together and everybody goes around for three minutes, this is what I'm working on, got questions? Need to coordinate, make a decision, let's get it done, move on. So it was very effective.

Andrew Guenther: That's outstanding, especially for a new leader in a new area with the added stress of a pandemic. So, that's great that you're able to have that reference point.

Pat Rios: Yes.

Andrew Guenther: I wanted to thank you for your time today, Pat. It was great talking to you as always. I appreciate your support, both for the Hero Experience and for Cleveland Clinic as a whole, it means a lot to us. And thank you again for your time.

Pat Rios: Thank you, Andy. One, I appreciate everything you've done for me since I've joined the Cleveland Clinic. You've been a great resource. For those of you that don't know, Andy Gunther, we connected through HR and helping with the Hero Experience. He's brought a lot of quality candidates to our team, and it's been my pleasure to be part of that onboarding process. So thank you, Andy.

Andrew Guenther: Thank you very much.

Emily Grimes: That's our episode today. Thanks so much for joining this conversation with our military veterans and Cleveland Clinic caregivers, Pat Rios and Andrew Guenther. We thank them both for their time, and more importantly, for their service to our country. Thank you to all of you who are veterans, to those who are currently serving, and to you -- our listeners, for spending time with us today. That's it for all of us at GLLI! Stay curious and keep learning!