Inclusive Leadership Part 2: Sincerely, Nathan

Podcast Transcript

Emily Grimes: Welcome to Learning to Lead, a leadership development podcast from Cleveland Clinic! I'm Emily Grimes, and today we're revisiting Inclusive Leadership. There is so much to be learned about how leaders live inclusive leadership, and this will be a topic we return to often.

In this episode, my colleague within Mandel Global Leadership & Learning Institute, Elizabeth Pugel, spoke to Dr. Adam Myers, who joined Cleveland Clinic in 2018 as Chief of Population Health, and Chair of Cleveland Clinic Community Care. Dr. Myers is passionate about the topic of inclusive leadership – and we hope you enjoy the conversation.

Elizabeth Pugel: I wanted to start off and ask you, what does inclusive leadership mean to you?

Dr. Adam Myers: Well, that's a great place to start. I'm not sure that I'm an expert, but I am certainly honored to share my perspective. I think inclusive leadership really is a style of leadership that focuses on a few different things. First of all, it's team building and being sure that you have varied views and skills on that team. Creating safety is really important, and you do that by establishing a shared pool of meaning. Then curiosity is really important as well. Seek to understand and don't assume that you do understand as a leader. Then finally, listen to the information that people are giving you and just listening isn't the key element of inclusion. It is a start, but then actually, including some of what you hear into what the ultimate plan is, is an essential element of inclusivity.

Elizabeth Pugel: So it sounds like incorporating your team, your skills, having that psychological safety, seeking to understand and listening, are those all parts of the ways that you personally practice inclusive leadership? If so, what are some examples?

Dr. Adam Myers: Yeah, absolutely. I frequently when working with the teams that we have within Cleveland Clinic Community Care will ask questions, "Okay, what are we missing?" I remember there was a leader that I had back at another organization and he was the CEO of the health system. We were undergoing a very, very significant crisis. In that very stressful moment, he and I were standing there together and we were alone and he said, "Adam, what are we missing?" That has really stuck with me ever since, so seeking that input that is outside of your own mind and your own thought processes is absolutely essential.

Elizabeth Pugel: Yeah. That's a great example. Do you have any other lessons learned from previous leaders that you've been working with that you've learned about inclusive leadership from?

Dr. Adam Myers: Yeah, I've seen some very inclusive leaders and some that were far less so. One thing I learned is that it is not accidental. It won't just happen on its own. You have to purpose to be an inclusive leadership, but the good news is it is a learned skill set. I kind of fly in the face of there being natural leaders. Now, there's certain people that have attributes that may be potentially set them up to be more successful as leaders, but there are no natural leaders from what I can think.

I've seen, one leader I had that was my very first administrative role, was fabulous. He was inclusive. He made it safe. Then there was another leader that I had that I remember in a one moment we were in a brainstorming session and in the halfway into this brainstorming session that he had called, he had thrown an idea out there a few minutes earlier and then slammed his hands down on the table really loudly and said, "I'm frustrated." We were all like dead in the room thinking, "What in the world?" He said, "I've already said what I want, so why is everyone else still talking?" I thought to myself, "Oh my goodness, new definition for brainstorming, his brain, our storm," and recalibrated my expectations in that role. Nonetheless, that is taking the good, learning from it, taking the not so constructive and learning from it, and trying to avoid those things as your role as a leader is important.

Elizabeth Pugel: Yeah, I agree. That's a really good story to level set and to really gain that perspective on. Why do you think it's important for others to understand inclusive leadership?

Dr. Adam Myers: Well, one, I think it's certainly in the majority of circumstances, it is the most constructive, most productive and most successful style of leadership, in my opinion. Certainly in absolute emergencies, then taking a more of a command and control approach can be necessary, and I've done that. Specifically, in life-threatening clinical emergencies. I've been the leader of teams where it's been very command and control, and that was the only way. We couldn't stop and really deliberate a tremendous amount, but in most other situations, it's just a preferred way. One, you get better decisions, you get better outcomes and you have more satisfied members of your teams. It's just more fulfilling to be part of that kind of team.

Elizabeth Pugel: Sure, absolutely. You mentioned previously that inclusive leadership was a learned skill. Has there ever been a time where you did not feel included?

Dr. Adam Myers: Oh my, yes. Certainly in that brainstorming moment, I didn't feel particularly included. There was one leader as well over the years that I reported to who in the time that I reported to him, I don't recall a single moment where he said, "Hey Adam, what do you think we should be doing right now? What are your thoughts about how to approach this?" Almost every conversation was, "This is what I'd like to do it. Can you do that? If so, by when?" Certainly, I learned to do things well, but I didn't feel like as a team member, all that I could bring to the table was being garnered. Absolutely have been on the outside of the inclusion conversation, and that's part of why I try to make it safe and I try to make it to where I purposefully build sometimes accountability partners into teams. If you'd like, I could actually share one specific example of how I have done that.

Elizabeth Pugel: Yeah. We would love to hear about that.

Dr. Adam Myers: Yeah, and I do this, I learned this a while back and I'm not going to get preachy here, but I'll use it as an example. There's a story in the Old Testament where King David was proceeding down a path that wasn't particularly legal. It wasn't particularly ethical as a king and no one was really willing to speak up to him and say, "Hey, this isn't a great direction." There was one person, one person in this biblical story named Nathan who was willing to speak up and speak truth into the life of this leader. At one of my previous jobs where I was before there was ... I got a sense one day that I might need that. It seemed like a yes sort of environment. I reached out to an elder statesman in the organization and in my onboarding meeting with him, I said, "I need to ask something of you."

He said, "What's that?" I shared with him that story of Nathan and I said, "Will you be a Nathan for me in this place?" He said, "Well, what does that look like?" I said, "I need you to say, 'Adam, you're missing the mark.' I need you to say, 'You're acting as though you haven't thought about this. You're not being inclusive enough.' Will you do that?" He said, "Yes," and the good news is I held him accountable for doing so. I would get these little emails that would say, "Sincerely, Nathan." They always made me better.

Elizabeth Pugel: Oh, that's a great story. I think really tells a lot about the importance of having that accountability partner and how that has been a foundation for you with inclusive leadership, so thank you for sharing that.

Dr. Adam Myers: Yeah, if everyone around the table when you're a leader, tends to agree with each other and tends to just agree with you, then the output of that team suffers.

Elizabeth Pugel: Yeah. Agreed, so having an accountability partner was a great way that you inspire others to practice inclusive leadership. What are some other examples of how you have inspired others to be more inclusive?

Dr. Adam Myers: Well, I think you can get pretty basic about how to build teams effectively that can inform inclusive leadership. I think it really starts by together defining and prioritizing the most important work. What's the meaning of what you're trying to accomplish? Next phase is to imagine the future state and build some tactical strategies about how to potentially get there. Then after you've done those first two steps, it might be important to refine the team, if necessary, given the vision that you've created, given the strategy that you've begun to spell out. Do you have every one that you need? Are the characteristics of the team there? Do you have a diverse views? People that are different from you and that their vision aligns with the vision that you've created as a team, and then get out of the way. Let the teams do the work and focus on culture, make it safe for people to fail. Make it safe place where people can share disparate ideas and can avoid having to have the meeting after the meeting where they share what they're really thinking with each other, but are afraid to share it with you.

Then just keep focus on that. One way that I've done that, which is a little unique was at times when I felt like teams that I was a part of were doing a little too much group think, I picked a designated skeptic for the day. I said, "Your role for today is you're going to listen to the conversations and at the end of when we seem to be all agreeing with each other, your job is to challenge that and be the skeptic for the day," and it's really kind of got us along and helped us learn.

Elizabeth Pugel: Those are some great tips. Thank you for sharing those. If you could tell your younger self one thing about inclusive leadership, what would it be?

Dr. Adam Myers: Well, one, it's the best way to go. I think I wish I could learn early on the elements of what lead to professional fulfillment. You kind of learn those along the way in fits and starts. Ultimately, leadership is about fulfilling the vision for the team, fulfilling the mission that you have as an organization, but also key to that is ensuring that those on the team that you are leading, are finding fulfillment in what they do. Really understanding what leads to fulfillment is important. I think there are really just three key things that lead to fulfillment for people professionally.

One of them is meaningful work. The second is having the appropriate resources that you need to accomplish what you've been asked to do. Then the final thing is appropriate bi-directional accountability for the performance. In healthcare, we certainly have meaning in spades for what we do, but there's nothing a whole lot more challenging and dissatisfying than having a job to do and not having, and the accountability for it, and not having the resources that you need to accomplish those goals. Trying to ensure that your teams are resourced appropriately is key, but then having that bi-directional accountability. Set clear expectations in both directions and then follow through on it, be willing to have those difficult conversations. That's really what leads to, I think, fulfillment professionally, both for me personally, and from what I've seen, the teammates.

Elizabeth Pugel: Those are great qualities to have. From a fulfillment perspective, really, really important, especially in an inclusive environment. If you could instill one inclusive quality in every person in the organization, what would it be and what would the impact be?

Dr. Adam Myers: Wow, one, just one.

Elizabeth Pugel: Just one.

Dr. Adam Myers: Curiosity.

Elizabeth Pugel: Okay, and what about curiosity?

Dr. Adam Myers: I think we all too often assume that we understand something when we really don't, and it is vital to fully, as fully as we can, understand the situation from multitude of angles, understand where people are coming from and what their needs are, rather than assuming that we understand it. I look back at one particular time back before I went to medical school, one of the things that I did was I helped open and operate a shelter for homeless men. In that situation, there were a lot of preconceived notions that I had about what leads to homelessness. When I went in there, the part of the process taking in these gentlemen was learning about their story, seeking to fully understand, and then together creating safety and creating a plan together to move toward greater independence and greater self-sustaining life for them. That just changed everything about how I was interacting with people. So many of the things I thought led to homelessness just weren't there. So many new things were opened up for me that I had not previously considered. That's a big opportunity for people to seek to understand first and then, and only then can you be an inclusive leader and make the better decisions.

Elizabeth Pugel: Yeah, that's really interesting and appreciate you sharing that. When you're working with leaders in your organization, how do you help them become more curious?

Dr. Adam Myers: By asking questions. I think the best way is to model it. If I seek to understand, then people around will seek to understand. One of the phrases I learned from another leader that I had the privilege of working with was in the middle of the conversation, he would ask clarifying questions. He would say, "Can I ask a clarifying question?" Then ask the question and really prompt additional input. Then if there still was more that he wanted to know, he would just simply say, "Say more," and then the person was given permission to just keep going and say more and then refine the ask. What I found is that as I've modeled that and done that, members of our teams now ask clarifying questions, and I will find them talking with each other and talking with their teams and saying, "Say more," and seeking to understand. I think in the short of it, it's really modeling it first is the best way to promote that curiosity.

Elizabeth Pugel: Thank you for sharing. We've talked a lot about accountability partners today being curious. Overall, why do you think inclusive leadership is important?

Dr. Adam Myers: Well, again, I think it's simply the most effective. It's the most rewarding for all involved and I just can't imagine doing it differently. I've seen it done differently and it was patently unrewarding for everyone involved. I will tell you, people tend to disengage. When the creative people in the organization, when the passionate people in the organization grow quiet because they have disengaged and they are not being included, that's when an organization begins to die, and it's simply that.

Elizabeth Pugel: Thank you for your insights. As we have learned a lot from you, in your experience with inclusive leadership today, I want to open up the conversation for you to share anything else that you would like our listeners to know a little bit more about yourself and/or your thoughts and actions on inclusive leadership.

Dr. Adam Myers: Yeah. Thanks, Elizabeth. There's a couple of general principles for leadership and what I like to call followship, because I think it's important to learn to be a follower along the line. Frankly, the things that follower are I think some good things to consider for life period. First of all, is be interruptible. I know very few of life's most important moments that were absolutely planned. I don't know anybody that woke up one day and said, "Today is the day I'm going to meet my spouse, or today is the day I'm going to decide on what I want to do as a career or even something as small as today's the day I'm going to hear my favorite song for the first time." Be interruptible.

Be present is the other thing. Know the moment that you are in and people with ambition tend to be very sort of future-oriented and that's a good thing, but it can certainly limit the necessary focus on the now and the people you are with. Certainly, there are very tangible examples of it. I've seen back when people were in restaurants pre-COVID, you see people sitting at a restaurant together, having a night together out, and they're all looking at their phones. They're not really fully present in that moment. I have six kids and one of the things I've done when I've found my kids sort of immersed in that is I've sat across the table and watched kids with glowing objects in front of their faces and just walked over and turned off the light and they're like, "What are you doing, dad?" I'm like, "Well, it seems to be that's where you're focused. So the fact that you're in a room with other people didn't really seem that relevant." They're like, "Yeah, yeah, I get it," and then the phones would get put down. Be interruptible, be present, be willing to put yourself in other people's shoes.

Then the final be that I think really goes along with it is be authentic. Part of the being willing though, I'll go back to that is being willing to, again, understand who's on your team, understand their goals, their aspirations, what do they struggle with? What's the best way to communicate with them? I mentioned that I have six kids and they're all unique individuals. I've tried to adapt my parenting style to what I thought was most suitable for each and every one of them. I've had gotten some pushback from them, "Dad, come on, how come you treat that person this way? How come you're harder on me?" What I wanted to say is, "Well, that's because you're harder-headed, kid," but the real answer is because that's what seems to work for you. Getting into what works for your team is important as well.

Elizabeth Pugel: This will take us to our final question that we have for you today, and if you could leave our listeners with one final thought on inclusive leadership, what would that be?

Dr. Adam Myers: Well, Elizabeth, I really think that it's that leadership is a privilege that must be earned every day, and that trust is often the rate-limiting element in the success of teams. When it's present in teams, there's movement and success. When trust is absent, you maintain the status quo at best. I guess maybe I'll add two final be’s to the be’s. First was again, be interruptible, be present, be willing, be authentic. Now, for the last two, be trustworthy because of what I just described and then be grateful because frankly, it's the healthiest of all emotions and it's contagious, so please share it.

Elizabeth Pugel: That's fantastic. Thank you so much for your time and your insight today.

Dr. Adam Myers: You bet. Most welcome.

Emily Grimes: And that's a good place to end -- there's not much more we need add to that list. A huge thank you to Dr. Adam Myers for sharing his time and insights, and to Elizabeth Pugel for always acting as our Nathan.

Caregivers, if you're curious to learn more about Inclusive leadership, head online to Connect Today and visit the Office of Diversity and Inclusion's site or the Learner Connect page for more content from Mandel Global Leadership & Learning Institute.

That's it for us at GLLI. Stay curious and keep learning!