Inclusive Leadership Part 1: Leading Authentically

Podcast Transcript

Emily Grimes: Welcome to Learning to Lead, a leadership development podcast from Cleveland Clinic! I'm Emily Grimes, and today we're talking about Inclusive Leadership. This is a big topic that feels especially relevant right now. We'll be coming back to the topic Inclusive Leadership in upcoming episodes as part of a series - because there's so much to learn about how Leaders LIVE inclusive leadership. My colleague within Mandel Global Leadership & Learning Institute, Elizabeth Pugel, sat down with Rasheeda Larkin. Until recently, Rasheeda was a leader and Program Manager for Community Relations within Cleveland Clinic's Community Care division. Rasheeda was a part of Cleveland Clinic for a number of years, and has personal experience with inclusion before and after becoming a leader. Let's listen in to their conversation now.

Elizabeth Pugel: We'd like to welcome Rasheeda Larkin with us today for our Inclusive Leadership Podcast. Rasheeda, we are excited to have you and our listeners are excited to hear your perspectives on inclusive leadership. Let me start off by asking you, what does inclusive leadership mean to you?

Rasheeda Larkin: Well first, I'm so excited to be here. So thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. And to answer your question, inclusive leadership to me is a combination of two things. It is of course, a feeling and it is intentional action. So it is all of these feelings that make people feel comfortable and included. So that includes trust, that includes comfort, that includes intimacy, and it's not just bringing diverse people to the table -- it's building those relationships to allow people to feel comfortable to speak at the table, and when they speak they're supported and even respected within their views at the table. And last but not least, the intentional action is they have power at that table. The people at that table share power with them and they share decision making abilities as well.

Elizabeth Pugel: That is a great insight for your perspective on inclusive leadership, being a feeling and an intentional action. I'm curious to know, has there ever been a time where you felt not included? And if so, what impact has this had on you?

Rasheeda Larkin: Yes. So there was a time at Cleveland Clinic where I did not feel included. The great thing is that I've always had the opportunity to work in departments and to work within job titles where I really felt like I was working in my purpose. These were jobs that always fit, not only my skillset, but also my passion. So I excelled at all of these jobs and I was really lucky and blessed to have leaders around me who believed in me and who saw that I was operating in my gift. And that was wonderful. But what I can tell you is that even though I was excelling in those job titles, I still did not feel very included. So my very first conversation about leadership at Cleveland Clinic was about seven years ago, where one of the leaders sat me down and asked me, "Hey, are you ready to be a leader here at Cleveland Clinic?"

And I said, "No." And I think that she believed that I was not ready to be a leader and that wasn't necessarily it. I knew that I was different. I was very colorful. I am very colorful in a very conservative organization and sometimes that doesn't always fit. And I was having a hard time understanding how to not be myself in an organization where I felt like they would accept me more as a leader if I fit into this thing. I don't even know how to describe it. If I fit into this mold of being very conservative, which I am not. So I just didn't know if I would be included that way and if I would be accepted and respected as a leader.

Until sometime later in my career where I was able to be surrounded, especially around women leaders, leaders who happened to be women who saw themselves in me, who were also very colorful in personality, I was able to experience not only just women, but Black women, which was very important to me, especially as a Black woman and a very Afrocentric Black woman.

My name is Rasheeda. You know that I'm Black before I come in the room. Also, I have very Afrocentric features. I have locks in my hair, just very much a Black woman. So to see that and to see other women around me who have these very colorful personalities who look like me and we share some of the same experiences, it normalized what leadership could look like for me and it also showed me in these rooms that these women were respected and their leadership was taken seriously and people sought them out. And that created a totally new paradigm for me, where I was able to see myself as a leader. So years later, having that conversation about leadership now with these other women leaders that I have met, the conversation was very different. It wasn't, "When will you be ready to be a leader at Cleveland Clinic?" It was, "You are a leader now in your own right. When are you ready to change your job title and what do you want to do? And, how can I help you get there?" Was that a lot?

Elizabeth Pugel: It was a lot, and it was very colorful and I think it provides a lot of perspective for how a time in your life has really impacted you for your future and how you embrace inclusive leadership, and how you continue to work in the area that you are passionate about and that you have a purpose in. So I think it's perfect.

So you mentioned being colorful in a conservative organization and I'm curious to know if that color comes through when you practice inclusive leadership. So how do you personally practice inclusive leadership?

Rasheeda Larkin: One of the things that I take with me everywhere I go now is this quality of having empathy and I think that's really important. I sit at so many tables and these tables are amazingly different from each other. So this can be boardroom tables within Cleveland Clinic, this can be boardroom tables in the community, this can be kitchen tables in the community. And so no matter where I sit, it's always very important for me to understand the other person's point of view, where they sit at the table to read the room and to really understand what is the mutual benefit here.

I'm really all about power sharing and what that looks like. And to work in community relations, I can never go into the community making decisions for the community without knowing that that community should have some type of power in that decision making, because it's impacting them. I mean the same within Cleveland Clinic, I can't go into any room with my own thoughts and ideas where I have to partner with another person, whether it's other leaders or departments or institutes and not have that empathy without thinking, "What is the mutual benefit here? What am I getting out of this and what are they getting out of this too?"

And also understanding their point of view, where they come from, what are some of their experiences, because we're bringing all of that to work with us in order to make these decisions. So I would say that's the one thing that I do every day is practice a lot of empathy.

Elizabeth Pugel: Empathy is extremely important and I'm curious to know, you mentioned empathy, power sharing, understanding previous experiences. Are there any additional qualities of inclusive leadership that you think are important?

Rasheeda Larkin: I would add on to the empathy part, right? The first part is self-mastery. Before I really try my best to empathize, so the whole idea of empathy is trying to understand someone else, is trying to think about what it's like a day in their shoes and what they go through. And there's no way that I can get to that level without having some type of self-mastery. So who am I? What do I feel comfortable with? And I'm not just talking about at home, but in business and how do I operate and what makes sense to me? If I don't understand what I'm bringing to the table, if I don't understand who I am to my core as a person and how that manifests in different parts of my life, there's no way that I can practice empathy.

So I think that's the first part of being an inclusive leader, because you have to understand who you are to see how you connect with other people. The second part of that is once I master myself and understand what I'm good at and what I'm not good at, and all those other things, it really leads to openness. Once I feel more comfortable with myself and my experiences and even the things that are not so great about me, whether it's bias that I have or things that I don't like to do, then I'm more open to learn about other people and their own experiences. Once you get those two parts together somewhat, and that's always a learning journey or it should be, we should be constantly evolving, then that leads me into empathy and trying to learn about other people. So I would say yes, to be in inclusive leadership, you have to know yourself, self-mastery is important, and you have to be open.

Elizabeth Pugel: You mentioned earlier about being influenced from others to be in the position that you're in today. What have you learned from other leaders about inclusive leadership?

Rasheeda Larkin: This makes me smile because I've really been lucky with the leaders that I have around me. Two things that I have learned from other leaders, the first thing is being adaptable and you have to be ever changing. And it's not just about innovation, it's not that. It's a mindset of being adaptable and being flexible. I think all of us have seen the way that our leaders move in the face of COVID, in the face of the social and political, so many different types of polarizations that's happening in the world that has impacted our business. So to see our leaders shift on their toes, to see them sailing a boat that they are breaking down and rebuilding at the same time while sailing in this boat, is absolutely amazing to me.

And it's really taught me that although nothing is guaranteed and things can change overnight and they can change completely, it is really important to still have that north star. It's important to know, what is my end goal here? What do I need to do to lead me there? But that the strategy can always change. The environment can always change, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm going to achieve that goal, even if the way that I achieved that goal looks different in the environment that I'm in. So I think flexibility and adaptability has been two of the things that I've witnessed leaders do, especially at this time.

Elizabeth Pugel: Is there any other ways that you feel leaders could be more inclusive?

Rasheeda Larkin: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Know what you're missing. So when I speak of self-mastery and openness and having empathy, there are some times where we're sitting at tables and we need to be very honest with ourselves and honest with our teams and say, "Somebody else's voice needs to be in this room, because we're getting to the same conclusions. We're trying to work on the same problem that we've been having for a very long time and maybe that problem is worded different now, or maybe we have different data to back up this problem, but the problem is still here. And clearly, maybe we have some type of group think or something going on, but the right voice is not in this room." And I think when we step back and look at so many different organizations, especially within the past five years that have had major missteps and they've been publicized all over the news about some of the things, some of the policies that they've had that have come up on that end user, that customer and now they're all over the news about it.

And I really think, "Man, that would not have happened if they have one person in the room." And when you think about it, Elizabeth, they probably did have one person in the room, but it goes back to the very beginning. Did that person feel respected? Did they feel comfortable to speak up in that room? Were their views respected? Was there some power sharing? Were they able to make a decision and say, "We're not going to put this product out there because it looks like this, especially during this time." So when I think about that, it's important for leaders to understand here are the things that I'm great at, here are the things that my team is wonderful at, but maybe I need to invite someone else here to make sure that we don't make any mistakes.

And even if we're just not worried about making mistakes, maybe I need to bring other voices in here to really do an excellent job at what I'm trying to achieve. So I think that's another thing that inclusive leaderships do. They know themselves, they know their teams, they practice this empathy all the time. They know what their teams are capable of, and are absolutely okay with saying, "Here are some of my weaknesses and this is what we can do to fill in the gaps. And I might need you, Elizabeth, to fill in that gap for me, because I know that you have that skill and that set, that gift that I don't have and my team don't have, and I want you to share the power at the table to tell us when we're doing the right thing and where we're doing the wrong thing."

Elizabeth Pugel: You brought some great perspectives as far as why inclusive leadership is important. Why do you think it is important for others to understand inclusive leadership?

Rasheeda Larkin: Yeah. That's a great question. I'm going to give you an example. So back in the day, I was a recruiter, right? So I worked in human resources for a very long time. And what I noticed is that as humans, just as human beings, we like being around people that are like us. And what that means is as a recruiter, Elizabeth, if you have a position open, I'm going to send you 10 different people and the reason that you're getting these 10 different people is because they all have great resumes. They fit your qualifications, they fit your educational requirements, but because we are human beings, you are going to pick the person that you feel most comfortable with, and the person that you feel most comfortable with is probably similar to you, right?

This is just human behavior. So I always found myself advocating like, "Hey, I know that maybe this person is different from you or different from your team." And at the time that a person is in an interview, they're not interviewing you for your skill. I mentor a lot of people. They're not mentoring you, or they're not interviewing you to see if you have the right skill set and to see if you have the educational requirements. If you didn't have that, you wouldn't be in the room. They're interviewing you to see if you gel in with the team, to see if you're a good fit for that culture, for that microculture within that team or that department. So you're really picked on personality. That's to be honest. So I will always tell them, "Hey, I met you and I met your team and this person might be good for you because they'll be able to fill in the gaps for you. You know that they're perfect for the position. Just try them out."

My job as a recruiter was not only to find people, but it was to influence leadership to make some of those decisions that might make their team better. So this goes back to the last question, basically finding someone who was a little bit different, who could bring something different to the table, and the reason why that's so important, when we have a group of people in the room that are different from each other, when they have different experiences and different backgrounds, when they went to a college that was different from yours, or maybe didn't go to college and got to this position through grit and hard work and resilience or whatever else, you will find that whatever problem comes your way, it is somebody on your team, somebody in your circle, somebody in your community, if you're looking for an inclusive community, somebody already has the answer to that problem.

But when you surround yourself with people that's just like you, that have the same experiences that you have, that doesn't really understand anything outside of your personal world view, you get stuck. So we find that companies are more efficient, they're more creative, they're more adaptable, they're more flexible, they're held to a higher regard so they're number one, two and three on whatever list is good right now. They're absolutely great because they have so many different people at the table that's bringing different experiences that's solving all types of problems. You literally can't lose with so many people on one team with different experiences and when they all feel included.

Elizabeth Pugel: It has been great to hear your perspectives on inclusive leadership today, and I have one final question for you to leave our listeners with. If you could instill one inclusive quality in every person in the organization, what would it be and what would the impact be?

Rasheeda Larkin: I think the one thing that I would say that I want to leave everyone with is to... Can it be two things? I know it's two things every time, Elizabeth. Can it be two things?

Elizabeth Pugel: It can be two things.

Rasheeda Larkin: Okay. The first thing is, be honest. Be honest with yourself, and I know I've talked about these things all the time. I have some really major life themes of self-mastery and empathy and I know I talk a lot about that, but I think that it is important to be honest with yourself, to know who you are, what you stand for, what are some things about you that you want to change? What are some things about you that are great? And you need to really sit in that. So be honest with yourself, the good, the bad, the ugly. It's really, really important to figure out what are some things that I need to do better in and what are some things that I need to let shine a little bit more? So I would say that's the first thing.

And the second thing is to be intentional and being intentional with getting out of your own way. If you really want to be an inclusive leader, you have to be intentional about trying to build relationships with people who are not like you. You have to be intentional about getting out of your neighborhood. You have to be intentional about questioning things that are really uncomfortable. If I walked into a room and I saw... And this is not my family, right? If I walked into a community room and I'm looking at the leadership and all the leadership looks exactly the same, I mean even down to the shoes that they're wearing, you should automatically think, "Wow, this is strange."

Even if you've never thought that before, it's important to question these things, because it makes you question your decisions. So when you ever get into a room and you look around, "Wow, everybody looks like me in this room. Everybody has the same thoughts and ideas," Not saying that we're arguing with each other, but, "nobody is respectfully disagreeing? Nobody has a different viewpoint?" Or, "I'm the only one talking in this meeting? Nobody else has anything to say?" We have to feel comfortable questioning ourselves and being intentional about being inclusive, if that's where we're really trying to go. And it is not going to be easy and it's not going to be safe, and we have to be okay with that.

Elizabeth Pugel: Rasheeda, it's been an absolute pleasure having you join our podcast today and we appreciate all of your insights and perspectives on inclusive leadership. Thank you so much.

Rasheeda Larkin: Thank you. It's been so much fun. Thanks, Elizabeth.

Emily Grimes: That's our episode today. A huge thank you to Rasheeda Larkin for sharing her time and wisdom on inclusive leadership. So many good things to think about. We also thank Elizabeth Pugel, who always asks the right questions. And most importantly, thank YOU for your time, and willingness to join us as we Learn to Lead. Caregivers, if you're curious to learn more about Inclusive Leadership, head online to Connect Today and visit the Office of Diversity and Inclusion's site, or Learner Connect under the Learn dropdown in Connect Today, for more content from Mandel Global Leadership & Learning Institute.  

That's it for us at GLLI. Stay curious and keep learning!