Extraordinary Leaders Part 2: We’re All Human

Podcast Transcript

Michelle Lampton: Welcome to Learning to Lead, a leadership development podcast by Cleveland Clinic. I'm Michelle Lampton, and today's conversation is a part of our Extraordinary Leaders series. We asked divisions and institutes to share with us the names of leaders who demonstrate extraordinary leadership in their positions, and wow did they deliver! Today we're going to meet two of them who are very different leaders and who both work in patient-facing roles.

Jim Vidmar: My name is Jim Vidmar and I'm a supervisor on Main Campus, Cleveland Clinic. I'm in charge, one of two supervisors, actually in the department. And we have responsibility for our Red Coat team and our one concierge here on main campus. I've been supervising in this department for over 11 years now. We're responsible for about 40 Red Coats and the one concierge. We're here Monday through Friday from about 6:00 in the morning, till 8:00 at night, and we do work the weekends.

Terri Murray: Hi, my name is Terri Murray. I am the nursing director for the respiratory head, neck and the infectious disease institutes here on main campus.

We have upwards to 600 or so employees. On a regular day as the nursing director, I oversee the day to day, as to what's happening and also be able to listen to concerns, bring forward things that may need change, bring forward concerns to upper leadership and make sure that the patient care quality is excellent.

Michelle Lampton: Both Jim and Terri Murray work directly with patients, as well as lead teams of caregivers. I asked them to describe their leadership style, as well as how their teams would describe them as leaders.

Jim Vidmar: I've had feedback from people I trust with that feedback, telling me that in their opinion, I'm fair, consistent, and steady. I like to think of myself that way. In terms of my goal and leadership style, I like to call it relational. That's what I'm working towards. I have found out through a lot of experience that I really can't get a productive conversation, whether it's over something that's not going well or something I'm trying to praise someone about, unless I have a relationship with that person I'm leading. And that's what I’ve learned over time. So I like to think of it more of a servant leader role where I know that person, they know me. We understand each other's values. And are now sharing a vision and a direction.

Terri Murray: I think my team would describe me as being a serving leader, which is a term that I think is overused sometimes. But I think to be an effective leader, you really have to create that community that's passionate ... and this is a mouthful, passionate about delivering on the promise of world-class care. That's our vision here for the nursing institute.

What does that mean and how does that happen? When I say I'm a serving leader, I say you've got to lead from behind and in the middle and from the front. At different times, different things will require you to be different, a different leader for your team. And you have to have a very good emotional connection, emotional intelligence, if you will, and awareness as to what your team needs, given the circumstance.

Jim Vidmar: I have an example of one where within maybe the last year here, something occurred between one of our Red Coats and another, a caregiver. And as I was called into it, and didn't know the circumstances, I apparently for my Red Coat, didn't give the response she was looking for immediate support to her, but I didn't know the circumstance. Well, that offended her greatly. And I didn't even realize it. But then shortly after that I realized, wow, I have a problem now with this person. They told me they don't trust me, that I didn't support them. And that hurt a little bit. So I leaned on the relationship that we had before and gave it some time and patience. And gradually over time, I was able to bring it back. But I don't think I would have been able to, if I wouldn't have worked on the relationship aspect of that.

Michelle Lampton: Now, I don't know about you, but at this point I had to ask Jim *how* he was able to lean back into that relationship. I know that many leaders struggle with feedback... and when we find ourselves in these difficult situations with our caregivers, it's hard not to disengage or to become defensive. So how exactly did Jim repair this relationship?

Jim Vidmar: I didn't get back to her for about a day. She wanted an immediate response. So when we finally sat down in the office, she really kind of unloaded, which I was surprised about and I was taken aback and she kept being really, really aggressive. And I was starting to think, okay, I need to end this conversation, take charge of this. And I thought, no, be a little humble here. Listen. And she finally said, "Well, how would you feel and how would you feel and what would you do?" And she was just going at me that way.

And I finally said, "I'll be honest with you. I would feel how you're feeling, but I want to move on. I understand how you're feeling. I'm not sensitive to that. How are we going to move on here? Because that's what's really important. So I'm willing to say, I am very sorry. I apologize. It's a learning opportunity for me. How can we move on?" It still took her a little while, frankly. We said, okay, we can agree to this. But honestly it was a little bit cold there for quite a while, until I could break through that ice and get it back. And now it's very good, the relationship is very good.

Michelle Lampton: To me, that ability to continue to lean into a relationship when it got hard, that's pretty extraordinary. The need for strong relationships was a running theme in both of our conversations, and Terri shared how she learned to build those relationships early on.

Terri Murray: One of my mentors early on, when I was a new manager, I had all of this to do list. As leaders, when you're new, you come on, there are these insurmountable tasks to do.

A mentor said to me, "Terri Murray, you need to figure out everything about your employees. You need to get to know them. What I want you to do is go out there and write down two things about every one of the people that you lead that's important to them." I'm like, "What are you doing? I mean, I got all of this. I'm going to go find out."

It was the most important exercise that I could ever do because I connected with my team as human beings. We're human beings. I understood two things about them. I understood that their most important thing was to be a softball mother. Their most important thing was to making sure that they were able to do their kayaking. What are some of the most important things?

And boy, that really was a good way for me to be able to gain their trust and understand my lead-in and understand them as human beings first, before, "Okay, this is this great nurse. I can count on her when I need them to pick up an extra shift. This is a nurse that I want to mentor, got leadership ability ..." These are all very important things too, but you first have to connect with your team as human beings and understand them that way.

Michelle Lampton: Since these two leaders had been identified as being extraordinary by their colleagues, it made me wonder, what does being an extraordinary leader mean to them?

Jim Vidmar: Yes, extraordinary. That's always something that I'll be honest with you I struggle with a little bit.

It’s a really good question. What I would say and a couple of leaders that I've known, who I have admired and learned from one of them said, "Here's the most important thing you want to do as a leader, give the team vision and direction, vision, and direction. Set a vision. Where are we going? What does it look like? Where are we headed? Tell them here's the direction we're going in. And then empower them to work out the details, make the detailed decisions and be constructive about it, and then watch it happen. Don't micromanage." I think that's a way to be an extraordinary leader. You don't have to have all the answers. You don't have to solve all the problems. You certainly don't want to compartmentalize people and say, well, these people don't have good input here, open it up, let them come together in teams and you'd be surprised what happens there. So I've tried to use that, give vision and direction.

Another leader, my director currently I'll say his name, Tim Gibbons. I think he's an extraordinary leader because what he really does, he's on the floor and he knows all the Red Coats names. He can come by them, talk with them. He knows what inspires them from what some of their interests are. She sets very high standards, but he's very visible and approachable. He's very real person. And I think that's really important. If you're going to be an extraordinary leader, you have to have the confidence of people and that sense that you understand them and you care about them. So my goal is really, I have a lot of administrative duties, takes me off the floor. My goal is really to be on the floor with my team, as much as I can. I want to support them and be fair, but I want to set the high standards. And that means really being out there and making sure that I'm part of what the team is.

Terri Murray: What it looks like to me is... I'll give an example. An extraordinary leader develops their team to a point where there might be some anxiety as a leader because you might not think you're needed.

For instance, really, really developing a shared governance team and shared governance to look at how they govern their practice. They're doing the work. And in the beginning, it's a lot of work upfront. You're continuing to mentor and develop.

One time I came into work and they're like, "Okay, this is what we did. Here's our goals, our outcomes. This is what we plan to do. This is what we need from you, Terri." I thought, "I have truly arrived to being extraordinary because I'm not needed." 

That was an extraordinary feeling and brought me much joy, to be able to know that they've developed to this point that I have led them and I've been orchestrating to help them. I could still be of that assistance, but they've developed.

So that's what I think it means to be an extraordinary leader, to know that your team can lead, even without you present. That you've developed a culture of excellence and that they can sustain that without you. Then you've arrived, maybe into that level of being extraordinary.

Michelle Lampton: As they grew as leaders, they both shared what the most important aspect of being a leader was for them.

Jim Vidmar: Be human. It's very easy for a leader to not to be vulnerable because now you have to be more human. You want to be kind of like policies, procedures, I'm in charge. I won't make mistakes. If you can depend upon me to be perfect. I think that's a mistake. I think you have to be visible to your team. They have to know that you're coming through not to try to find out what they're doing wrong because that can happen. But you're out there because you're concerned and you're asking them, how's your day going? What are some ideas you have today? How would you improve this, that, or the other thing? I'm open for some ideas. Maybe we should go somewhere, maybe change things. What do you think of these SOPs? That's just being there being transparent and visible. I think that's probably the most important aspect. The rest of it can flow from that I believe.

Terri Murray: Well, the one thing that people need to be thinking about is really understanding why you're here. Why are you here? Why have you become a leader? Understanding what that mission is. And I'm going to say again, knowing your team, connecting your team. To have them make connections, you have to connect.

Give yourself permission to balance your personal life with your work life. Give your teams permission to lead. You will find joy in being a leader. And you will find those extraordinary moments through what you've been able to accomplish in the culture that you're responsible for.

Michelle Lampton: Both Terri and Jim talked about the importance of learning from other leaders. They shared some of the most important lessons they received from their mentors. For Terri, it was about the importance of work/life balance.

Terri Murray: I had a mentor who said to me, "What are you doing? This will still be here tomorrow. You're obviously not very effective now, with yourself being so spun out to get any of this done. Give yourself permission to leave and give yourself permission to carry on tomorrow and see what you can delegate. Who are you asking for help with all of this crazy stuff that you're doing?"

That was very resonating with me and it works. You give yourself permission. There's no fault in that. You need to do it. There's no way, in any job, not just leaders.

That's important for all of us, I think, in any role that we ever have, is that we give ourselves permission to balance that. Because at the end of the day, you're going to be remembered for a lot of things. You might be remembered for, "Gosh, you did all of this for work. You were inspired to do all of these things in marketing. Look at all of these things that you did, how you worked for The Cleveland Clinic, what you created." But at the end of the day, that your real true legacy is what a good friend you are and what a great daughter you are and what a great mom you are. So remember that those things are very important and should never be sacrificed for your work life.

Michelle Lampton: For Jim, he learned from the leaders of his cycling club how to make sure everybody is included and nobody is left behind.

Jim Vidmar: I've really enjoyed my cycling time. And so we go on a ride and the cycling club has scheduled rides twice a week. So on Tuesday night, for example, we're going to meet and the ride starts at 6:30. Well, George, the ride leader shows up always early. Okay. So a leader should be there should show up early, be prepared. George gets the group together, 10, 15 minutes early, like a huddle and says, "Okay, here's where we're riding tonight. Here's the course. Some of you have ridden it before. Oh, I see a new face here." Okay. That's like a new rental joined the team. Right? "I see a new face here. Have you ridden before? How would you rate your riding? I'm trying to get a feel for the group because I want to keep us together. Oh, okay." So now we're welcoming it and we're building a team. And then George gives the rules out.

He said, "Okay, I want to be riding in a single file on these various roads. We're going to stretch out on the hills because we have different capabilities here. We'll regroup at the top. We're not going to leave anybody behind." And he goes on with this. Sometimes he drops back to pick up who's lagging, or he might assign someone like me and say, "Can you just revert back? We'll wait up on the hill and pick up that person and bring them along." I think those are just all applicable to work. I use some of those principles. So it's someone who knows what they're talking about. They're respected. They have the experience. They're treating everyone fairly and equally. They're aware of different people's capabilities and they have a vision and a direction, a plan. So I find that applicable to what I do.

Michelle Lampton: Finally, as we bring this episode to a close, we asked each of our extraordinary leaders what one thing they would want to leave you, our listener, with - one lesson they learned or one piece of advice they could share.

Terri Murray: I think to me is to always remember your humanness as you connect as a leader. Your greatness is how you can inspire the people who you're intended to lead. If you can't inspire them, the changes that you're going to ask them to change, you're going to be consistently asking of them. The status quo mindset needs to change, and this is where we need to go.

Jim Vidmar: I think the one thing I would leave with new leaders is remember that leaders are human. Don't lose in your human aspect of who you are. You are a real person and you have interests and issues and things just like everyone else. Leaders make mistakes. Don't be afraid to be human. Don't be afraid to make that mistake. But when you get it wrong, be humble and then get it corrected.

Terri Murray: You need to inspire that change. The thing is to go back to again, the why and then inspire. Inspire change. Be inspired. Find joy in leading, and then you will be extraordinary.

Jim Vidmar: You know, my work here I think my work here for 11 years has been fascinating because it's wonderful to help other people. It's as simple as that. All day long people arrive here and they need our help. And I go home at the end of the day with that satisfaction and knowing that I helped another person. And that's a great thing and we have wonderful caregivers here and we do that all day long. So be positive, meet, greet, and assist everybody that you meet, you can make a difference in their lives.

Michelle Lampton: And that's our episode. Two extraordinary leaders and the lessons they're learned along the way. A big thank you to both Terri Murray Murray and Jim Vidmar for speaking with me and sharing their leadership stories. If you have an extraordinary leader you'd like us to interview for this series, drop us an email. We want to hear your stories.

That's it for us at GLLI. Stay curious and keep learning!