What Is Thai Massage? with DeBorah Hill, LMT

Podcast Transcript

John Horton:

Hello and welcome to another Health Essentials podcast. I'm John Horton, your host. When you think about getting a massage, a certain image probably comes to mind. You probably see yourself relaxed and lying on a table, as a massage therapist uses their magic fingers to work your muscles. But Thai massage, an ancient form of healing rooted in Buddhism is nothing like that. It's not even close, despite what the name might suggest. So how is Thai massage different? That's what we're going to find out today from DeBorah Hill, a nurse and massage therapist trained in this form of care. She is one of the many experts at Cleveland Clinic who join us weekly to teach us how to maintain our bodies so we can always be at our best. So with that, let's explore the restorative power of Thai massage.

Welcome to the podcast, DeBorah. Thanks for stopping by to chat.

DeBorah Hill:

Oh, hi John. Good afternoon. I'm glad to have you by.

John Horton:

Well, before we get into our topic today, which as I told you I'm really excited about, I want to spend a moment just talking about you because I found your professional bio just fascinating. For starters, you are a level two reiki practitioner. You also do cupping therapy, relaxation therapy, and trigger point therapy as well as Thai massage. That's just some really cool stuff and just a pretty wide-ranging wellness approach.

DeBorah Hill:

Well, yes it is, John. And I think I can tell you, I think my journey actually began on a massage table about maybe 15 or 20 years ago. My background originally coming from nursing, I found that by that time I had inherited a lot of aches and pains and really a lot of stress that came along with the nursing profession. And it was really only after a couple of sessions of laying there, I realized, I said, "Yeah, I think I could do this myself."

And so that's what I did. I transitioned from nursing, bedside care, allopathic medicine where people arrive to us who are often sick. I want to say though, I worked in a variety of different areas in nursing as well. So I became very acquainted with the body when the body became sick or when the body went through recovery, when the body went through rehabilitation, and it was during those moments on the table, I said, "Well, if I can do this, I can actually work with a population of people in the preventive area, arenas, and wellness, and for clients who are relatively healthy and they would like to stay that way, and who also are well-informed about what they would like to have in terms of their own health and wellness experience."

John Horton:

Well, we're going to hit one of those ways that people can kind of stay healthy today by talking about Thai massage. And I guess to get us started, can you just walk us through what exactly Thai massage is?

DeBorah Hill:

So Thai massage know just briefly actually has a very long and ancient lineage, and it's something that I could touch base on it a little bit, but I really want to talk more about the modern expressions and the modern practice of Thai massage now that it's really spread around the world. And from my own teachers and from my own lineage, this is what I was taught and that this is what I would like to share with you. That number one to what we would call Thai massage is actually energy medicine. We are actually manipulating and using your own inherent energy, manipulating them through the sen lines to do bodywork. Secondly, it is a dynamic practice as it does involve yoga asanas, and whereas the client is actually more of a passive participant in this whole regard, and which persons such as myself would be exerting the external pressure needed to put you in some of these beneficial postures.

John Horton:

So you're kind of twisting somebody around a little bit or kind of having their limbs stretch.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, and they're being stretched and actually is within a sequence, actually. It is quite sequential. And then I think the third aspect of it is that there is a mindfulness component because as we're working with the body, there is an area where our conscious mind begins to descend as we relax and our subconscious mind begins to come up and at some point we want to allow some kind of a balance. And so that's where we have that mindfulness component that gets built in to the practice, not only just for the client, it's something that I encourage them to do, but it also reinforces my own practice, my own intention as I'm applying this practice with my particular clients.

John Horton:

So as you're working with somebody to kind of guide their body through these stretches or actually into these sort of poses, I mean, are you just doing it with your hands or I read in one thing where you could use, the person doing the massage, could use their hands, elbows, forearms, feet. I mean this is all part of it?

DeBorah Hill:

Yes. Oh, yes. In the traditional method, and we're talking about modern time, we have traditional method which is done on a mat on the floor, and then we have more modern interpretations where we're doing it on the table. My preferred method is on the mat, and I think it's more beneficial for me and the client. Traditionally it's done on a mat on the floor. And what that does for the client is that it induces a deep sense of relaxation because you actually feel like you're on a bed. You're not on a table, there's no sense of balance issues being triggered. You really feel like you're falling asleep. It also is beneficial for the practitioner because I'm closer to you and I get to use the leverage and gravity as my tools to help execute some of those movements. So very little of my own body energy issues. So if you're on the table on the floor and I'm over you, I really get to use a lot of leverage as my friend. Secondly, we go through, we start with the feet and we work our way to the head traditionally.

John Horton:

Okay, so up the body, you just go.

DeBorah Hill:

Up the body and we're working the sen lines and all of the pressures in the feet, up the legs, moving them through the central channel and out through the rest of the limbs of the body. And we begin with the feet and we work our way to the head. And this actually is very practical because when this form of massage was developed, everyone walked everywhere, everyone did agricultural work, everyone worked with animals and things of that nature. So working with the feet relieves the pain and the pressure as you move and work up the body. And so during these practices, you're placing them through the poses in a very sequential manner, and that's where the benefits comes from. It's just like what they call lazy man's yoga.

John Horton:

So starting at your feet and as you're working up, is that just because that's the area that's most sore or is there some sort of benefit you get by starting there and kind of rolling up? I feel like you're almost like taking a toothpaste out of a tube there.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, that actually is exactly it. And I want to point out there is a difference between what Western clients expect versus how this is performed. Starting with a luxurious foot massage is the most easiest way to relax the rest of the body versus when I start with the head, I can relax the head and the neck, but it takes a while for that to get to the rest of the body. By the time I get to the head, the body is like jelly because I'm working all these points through the sen lines, all the poses in a very sequential and practical way through your body.

John Horton:

And I take it through these sen lines that you're talking about. As you're working on the body, your brain is getting messages that, "We're relaxing. This is a very chill experience," and so your mind probably starts to shut down throughout that process.

DeBorah Hill:

That is something that I observed in my own experience, but more importantly among my own clients. The rate of respiration changes. It becomes more deeper, more purposeful, more clients, teaching clients how to do belly breathing, diaphragmatic or product type of breathing to open up the lung spaces, which of course massages the vagus nerve, which induces relaxation through the parasympathetic nervous system. So all of these things are very integrated into the body and that's why Thai massages are my favorite to give. It addresses all of those very vital areas in the body in a very passive way for the client, but also in a very energetic and beneficial way for the practitioner.

John Horton:

Now you said a lot of it is stretching, and I think, like I said, when we all think of a massage, you think more of that rubbing and kneading sort of thing in muscles to kind of soothe them or I guess loosen them up. What are you specifically doing then during a time massage? Are you just maybe stretching somebody's leg or their arms or as opposed to kneading at it?

DeBorah Hill:

Well, if we start with the feet, we start first with the feet and with the ankles. And so when we're stretching, we're actually stretching the bottom plantar of the feet and we're stretching all of the ligaments around the ankles. All right. This really helps with ankle stability, helps to prevent ankle rollout if you're unstable. This also helps with balance. And so moving then from the leg, we start with a nice pull and stretch, pull that leg out from the hip and then we bend from the knee and then we bring the knee up to the chest. So we do these stretching linear motions, and then we do the angular motions to place the person in the posture. So ideally if the client is relaxed, it becomes a nice pull, push, roll around, rolling through the hip socket and it's just kind of like jelly as I am just using leverage as I'm just pulling and then coming back for that slow push. And as I do that for myself, that actually feels good for my back.

John Horton:

Oh, I'm getting relaxed just hearing you talk about it. So as the person having this done, are you laying face up or face down or do you alternate and get moved around?

DeBorah Hill:

That's actually a good question. Thai massage also offers three or four postures, which adds to this dynamism. You can do it first laying face up or we call supine. Anyone who follows yoga, you can believe that's the savasana pose. That's the beginning, the corpse pose we start off with. You can also start someone face down or prone. You may also start someone sitting up. And I also like to do that for my Western... Most of my clients are Western because it's always head and neck and shoulders. So I can do the head and neck and shoulders for them and then they're sidelined. And a very active and vigorous Thai massage for my more active clients will start face up, sideline each side and pull you to sitting position at the end. So typically you'll go to two to three positions as you're doing the postures.

John Horton:

Now you said that as the person doing it, they use a variety of things, their hands, elbows, forearms, and even their feet. How does the massage therapist use their feet to help give a Thai massage?

DeBorah Hill:

Well, you would do that by standing up. Again, I refer back to the leverage and the gravity. If I'm sitting down next to my client, I have a little bit more, but the more I stand up, I have a lot more, I actually have a lot more of my body weight. And so when we're doing Thai massage with the feet and we're pressing down on fleshy areas, we're just stepping in and just applying our weight. And so we use our sheet, we do use our elbows, we use a variety of different parts of our bodies as tools to help us execute some of those movements which is safe for the client and is actually kind of safe for us. So we do use a variety of things. We use little things like a Thai stick and we'll do things like a little star.

John Horton:

To kind of rub things out a little bit or apply some big pressure. So some tools.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, this applies a lot more pressure than your finger when you're working into a tight spot.

John Horton:

I've used stuff like that on calves and those are, that is wow. When you go over some tight muscles with something like that.

DeBorah Hill:

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. So yeah, absolutely. We do use our elbows, we use our feet, we use other parts of our bodies as tools as well.

John Horton:

So is walking on somebody's back, like an example of a form of Thai massage?

DeBorah Hill:

Oh yes, yes it is. And I want to share too, it does share similarities to other Eastern based type of massage. So I want you to know this is quite common in the Eastern part of health and wellness and that is often done. Typically, when I do it's done with a certain pattern along the back. I will tell you, I assess my clients very carefully before I do any walking on their back. And these are typically my clients I've had for a while, where we have been working for some very specific goals. And then at this point I always want to caution people if you know have really bad back issues, no one really should be walking on your back, you should let that practitioner know so that you can get the most safest and most beneficial type of session.

John Horton:

Yeah, duly noted on that. I'm glad to hear that. Apparently I've been getting Thai massage for a long time because my wife has been walking on my back for 30 plus years now and I just didn't know what to call it. So now I've got an official name. So the one other thing, when we're talking about the actual experience as you're having this done, I read where one of these sessions can last up to 90 minutes.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes.

John Horton:

That just has got to be exhausting. I mean you got to feel great when it's done, but you got to feel like just everything in your body was worked.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes. And that is actually true. I do feel that is part of the benefit with Thai massage for the practitioner is that we also adopt complimentary poses to the ones we place our clients into. And so we are able to sit, we're able to stand, we're able to move, we're able to stretch as we move around the body. We use the client's body as a counterweight for our own stretch. For example, if I'm coming back, that just stretched my back out really, really nice. I don't have to use my energy to do that. I don't. And so I'm using the client as a counterweight, like a wheelbarrow, like the legs of a wheelbarrow I can lift and move the client around. Breath work is also important. Being able to manage your breath, synchronizing with the client or being asynchronous with the client. A lot of these practices I picked up from yoga, from reiki, from my other practices that I've done personally that help fortify me to be able to do this type of massage for 90 minutes. So yes, I feel pretty good when I'm done with one but not after three.

John Horton:

Now I feel like we've talked a lot about the physical aspect of it and how you're moving your body around and muscles and you're stretching ligaments and all this stuff. I want to spend a few moments here talking about the spiritual component of Thai massage and this connection to Buddhism. And you had mentioned this whole thing about moving internal energy around the body, which is just one of those interesting things when you hear about it. I just want to know more.

DeBorah Hill:

All right. I'd be happy to share with you what was shared with me. Let's start off with the idea of Buddhism because it is deeply rooted not only within Buddhism but also within Ayurvedic medicine and also traditional Chinese medicine. And a little bit of brief history. When we learn Thai massage, we know that the father of Thai massage is traced to the physician of the Buddha, Dr. Jivaka Komarabhacca. And so all of us who learn this type of massage trace our lineage back to the doctor. And so as Buddhism spread from India through China to Southeast Asia, there actually was a very cohesive effect with knowledge, with health, with language. And these things do tend to happen, great shifts in human history. And so there was a focus on health from the beginning on using energy, on using postures from the Ayurvedic medicine. And so that is where it is derived from. And so of course it takes thousands of years for these things to coalesce, but what we have now is a vital modern interpretation, kind of like what the Thai massage is for most people.

John Horton:

So this energy, is it a relaxing sort of energy that you get? Is it a vibrant energy where you get done and you're feeling like you want to go out and do something or is it a little bit of both?

DeBorah Hill:

It is a little bit of both. And from my experience with most of my clients, it depends on how they feel when they come in. Most clients who come in tired, who feel fatigued actually will have feeling with a lot more energy and some of my clients who feel overworked will come in and they will come in, they will have a lot more energy and a lot less pain than when they [inaudible 00:19:40]. The sen lines have been conceptualized from Ayurvedic medicine and that there are 10 essential ones that connects to social points in our body and they're called marma points and we do either acupressure or we do some of the yoga poses to move that energy around and this energy is already in our body. I'm not giving away energy, I'm not taking energy from you.

There are 10 sen, but there are four that we typically do in a Thai massage. One is the sumana, which is the sen line that goes straight to central channel. There is the pinghala the pink alpha, and the pinghala, which is both the right and the left side because in Thai massage you start on the left side for the woman, the right side for the male, the male is masculine, the left is female, and then you have kalathari, which is another central type of sen line. And then most postures, most things that happen in a Thai massage affects all of these, not once, not twice, but often three times. We're working through the sen lines to move through blockages and repair breakages as we conceptualize them along the sen line and it is the Thai version of Chinese meridians, but they're not the same.

John Horton:

Okay, so it sounds like as you do this, as you go through the massage, you start, like you said, spreading this energy around and just kind of sprinkling it all over the body, so you have these good vibes are everywhere.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes.

John Horton:

Well there are just so many unique elements to Thai massage and I'm just really blown away by everything going on here. But obviously you're not just doing this just for the experience. There's usually some real benefits to it, so why would somebody consider trying this? What are they going to get out of it?

DeBorah Hill:

I would say for anyone who is already receiving a massage, a table massage, I would strongly encourage you to come out and receive a Thai massage for the three-dimensional full body benefits that you'll receive in just one session. And I want to say that because we are addressing a lot of these different issues all at the same time, and most of these clients will find that they feel better all over and not just those areas they want addressed when they come for a typical massage.

Clients who are active, runners, people who actually... Runners, I would say definitely weekend warriors, I would say people who do high intensity training, those type of people who are very active actually need to have their nervous system sometimes reset so that their bodies can move with a lot more ease and a lot more grace. It also as we're going through the range of motions and the stretching and the pulling, I don't know if pulling so much, but we're going through the stretching, we're lengthening those muscle fibers and we're reducing the pain right where it starts. We reduce the dysfunction right where it starts, in the joints and in the muscles. And I would say that it is really a good overall practice for someone who just wants to relax and let someone else apply that type of pressure and energy that you really can't get anywhere else. It's really different from being on the table.

John Horton:

Now when you're talking with the flexibility, it seems like that's a huge issue for a lot of people. People are just stiff. I mean so many of us spend our days sitting at a desk doing things, so I know range of motion and flexibility are huge issues and it sounds like this sort of session really kind of loosens those muscles up and stretches them out.

DeBorah Hill:

That is true, and I would say the reason for that is the focus on the feet and the legs. Starting with the feet and the legs can have a tremendous and a beneficial impact for the low back and for the glutes. There is a lot of recent talk of pelvic floor, there's a lot of talk of gluteal weakness and gluteal instability. That is why there's a lot of that emphasis on the legs because we're working up those muscles, we are able, when we're doing our deep range of motion, we are really affecting deep-seated tendons and ligaments within the hip capsule and along the SI joint as we do multiple range of motion, multiple twists, we put twists in there. We do a lot of figure fours, we do things like hip opening.

John Horton:

The hips are big. I know everybody's hip hips are always, they're so tight and so problematic.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, yes. We do a lot of those and it's best done by manipulating the legs. It's best done by manipulating the legs.

John Horton:

Is there a lot of focus on back pain too? Because I know that is one of the most common complaints that people have.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes. There is also a very significant focus on back pain depending on the position that you're in. The best position to get to your back obviously is when you're prone and also when you're seated because then you can naturally go through seated twists, spinal twists to move those muscles around that connect to the low back. The low back definitely you can use feet, but as I mentioned before, you really have to do a good intake. But there is a lot of palmar compression, there is a lot of elbow compression and then there is a lot of range of motion using the limbs as guidance to move back. So as I'm moving my arm back, I'm actually moving my side waist and my side muscles just by doing this here. And so that's how you can see where some of those movements are actually beneficial for people.

John Horton:

Now all of that makes sense to me because obviously you're working those muscles. One thing I found interesting too was that they said it can also help with headaches. How does that come into play?

DeBorah Hill:

So the headache part will come in when we're working, when we get up to the head because there's a lot of intricate muscles and neurovascular structures that are in the head and neck that can contribute to headaches. When we're getting up to the shoulders, when we get to the head and the neck to relieve the headaches, we're working first to the shoulders, then to the neck and then to the primary areas around the scalp. And that actually does require a lot more sensitive acupressure points touching to those marma points that line up and down the neck and down the head. They also come up to the back of the head and they come up to the front. And so when we work these particular areas through acupressure, we can definitely release headaches.

John Horton:

Okay. Now you had mentioned stress and anxiety that it could help lower that, which makes total sense given how relaxing some of the sounds as you're laying there. One of the other items I saw come up was that it could help aid in digestion. Is that just because you're getting everything in your system moving a little bit or how does that come into play?

DeBorah Hill:

That comes into play because there actually is a focused abdominal massage that is done in traditional massage on the mat. And I would say this is one element that's often taken out of all Western type of massage. And so as we believe that central channel, as we're moving the energy up, we come to the area of our lower belly and our navel. In a lot of eastern philosophies, religions and healthcare, there is a deep belief, spiritual belief that the center and the central part of life begins in the central part of the abdomen. And in Western science we know this is true because we actually know we have nerve endings that we call the enteric plexus that is throughout all of our gut. It is our second brain.

And we actually can do a Thai abdominal massage beginning from the navel spiraling out, doing deep palmar compressions in the way that the colon moves as the contents of the colon moves. There is a deep emphasis on moving the sideways and there is a deeper emphasis in moving into the psoas and those deep retroperitoneal muscles that you can only get with a good Thai massage. Of course that feels really good and it really does aid in digestion over time. And I want to point out this is something that happens good for a long period of time, not just for once, it's not just a relief of one episode, but really a lifetime relief of those type of symptoms when done on a regular basis.

John Horton:

Well we've covered a lot of stuff with the flexibility, various aches and pains, stress and anxiety, digestion. Is there anything else that is on that pro list when it comes to getting a Thai massage?

DeBorah Hill:

I would say another thing that's on the pro list is the mindfulness component that actually comes with it because our minds are so busy and we have racing thoughts and a lot of those things can trigger and add to the anxiety and the depression that a lot of people do face, rightfully so. And so being able to use massage in this way is a way to help clients focus a little bit more on their mindfulness, allowing the thoughts to slow it down.

John Horton:

Well, which none of us do. Yeah, everybody's always go, go, go in today's world.

DeBorah Hill:

Right.

John Horton:

Now, who is the ideal candidate for a Thai massage? I mean you make it sound really good, but is this something for everyone or are there specific groups of people who might really benefit from this sort of therapy?

DeBorah Hill:

I would say people who are overall healthy and in good physical condition and have minimal muscular skeletal problems. Meaning if you have problems existing with a shoulder or hip joint, this may not be the massage you may want to try out right away because of the emphasis on the stretching, on the emphasis on the range of motion. So if you have that as an underlying condition, you may not want to try it, but if you feel stiff, that you really need to feel like you have to exercise, Thai massage can actually give you that feeling, that it gives you that kickstart when you want to start an exercise program because it can help you feel more flexible, it can increase your range of motion and therefore increase your endurance and sense of well-being if you're starting a new exercise program.

If you're in the middle of an exercise program, it'll help maintain the gains that you're having and help prevent any injuries too along the way. I would say it's also good for pregnant women as long as we make adjustments to positioning depending on which area in life, trimester that they may be at. And so I would say it's really good for everyone except maybe for those who are medically fragile and those who've had recent surgery of any kind.

John Horton:

Okay. Now you mentioned if you have joint issues it could... If you had say a shoulder issue, could you go in and have it done but you make sure you tell the person doing the massage about that and then maybe they focus on different areas?

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, and that's an important part of having a good communication between the therapist then the client because oftentimes when you're having shoulder pain, let's use that as example, it could be muscular, which we can help with. It could be actually within the joint capsule because this is really all ligaments. So here, sometimes things can get stuck. There can be adhesions, moving that shoulder around to kind of break that up. But if you have very poor range of motion or if I could feel those bones crinkling in there, then I may not-

John Horton:

I'm familiar with the crinkling bones.

DeBorah Hill:

Yeah. But if I feel that you don't really have a lot of good range of motion plus pain, then I may want to be mindful about what techniques I'd use on the shoulder. And so it's always good to refer out as well if you continue to have issues even after several good massage sessions.

John Horton:

What about if you have conditions like you have a heart condition say or high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, things like this? Is Thai massage something that you can look at? Can you get benefits out of that that might be kind of work in adjacent to whatever treatment you're getting?

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, you can. Again, this would be for clients who really don't get a chance to have the physical strength or stamina for exercise and all of these people in these groups struggle with fatigue. They struggle with a sense of poor self-esteem or a decreased sense of well-being and being able to have Thai massage work within a three-dimensional pattern, it actually is beneficial for them. It reawakens the body, it reawakens the body's energy patterns and then all ties back to the sen lines. It is the conceptual belief as we're working these sen lines, we will be addressing all of these other areas too. Not a cure, but we are addressing some of the symptomology from an energetic point of view as well as a physical point of view for our client.

John Horton:

So it sounds like from what you're saying that there's nobody who's necessarily ruled out of Thai massage, but you may have to talk with the person giving you the massage and they might have to make some accommodations and some adjustments around whatever condition or health issue you might have.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, that is correct.

John Horton:

All right. Are there any negatives from doing it or potential negative side effects?

DeBorah Hill:

So far in my practice and the practice of my teachers and my colleagues, I will say there are none. And I think it begins to, let's go back to good communication between the therapist and the client and making sure that we're reaching the kind of goals that you would like to have. I will say there are some clients that this is not a thing, maybe it's too vigorous for them. Sometimes some people, as we are aware, they have some issues with trauma and then trauma-informed care where they're being touched, but then they're also being manipulated in a way. So there are then those clients that we do, once again try to modify, but this may not be the best type of massage for them.

John Horton:

This is one of those, it seems like everybody likes different things, so you just have to decide or try it and see whether it's for you.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, absolutely.

John Horton:

So if you are interested in trying Thai massage, I mean how do you go about doing it, finding somebody who can really give you that sort of professional experience that you're talking about?

DeBorah Hill:

Well, thank you for asking. I think professional experience definitely is the key word here. For my certification, I am registered nurse, I'm a massage therapist and I have an additional certification as a Thai massage therapist. You do not need any of those professional degrees to actually take the training because you'll get all of the necessary training to perform a safe massage as well as the ethics that goes along with it. So you definitely want to look for someone who is certified in Thai massage and at which level that they may be certified. They may be basic, which is great, they may be intermediate and advanced, which is all the better. And the best way to sometimes find those are sometimes yoga studios because sometimes yoga instructors also are certified in Thai massage and they bring with them that background from the Ayurvedic side as well. Most studios, again, if you just take a look or if you can Google, you could probably find a very good Thai massage in your area.

John Horton:

Is there a specific certification that somebody should look for?

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, there is. Because there are different teachers who have different lineages. It is important, at least for me to share that you ask about what is their lineage, who was their teacher and who taught their teacher. And so for example, I know that my teacher was someone that was local here to my area and that she studied with someone in Virginia who directly came from Thailand. She also went to Thailand to study and get hands-on. So she came back not only just with the certification but with the accreditation to teach and to be able to perform at a high level. And so that is kind of where we're looking for people who are passionate about it. You really take step one, which is basic and then step two, which is intermediate, but every teacher has a different way of offering certification.

John Horton:

Okay. Should folks also clear getting a Thai massage with their regular healthcare provider, their doctor, just to make sure it's not going to maybe interfere with any other treatment or something else going on?

DeBorah Hill:

Generally I will say no because then we will treat Thai massages the way you would have for massage, a general massage. Of course you can always get a doctor's prescription and an order, but it's not necessary, primarily because not all of the therapists, all of the people who are giving it to you is licensed to receive it. I hope that makes sense. I hope that makes sense. You don't necessarily need to have one, a doctor's order, to have it done. If you are medically fragile, you should not have it done. If you've had recent surgery, you should not have it done.

John Horton:

So it sounds like if you're in one of those positions where you have some health issues, you should maybe mention it to your doctor first and definitely with your Thai massage practitioner just to make sure everything is good and that you're a good candidate for it.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, it's always an excellent time to talk to your healthcare provider about all of the things that you're doing to benefit your health. Hopefully then they get to see the benefit of the Thai massage when you come back for your regular appointments.

John Horton:

Well, I have to tell you, this has been a fabulous introduction to a form of massage therapy that I guess just isn't as well known as others, and I really appreciate you walking us through it, DeBorah. It sounds like Thai massage is just something that might be worth looking into if you're searching for something different just to boost your health and overall well-being.

DeBorah Hill:

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

John Horton:

So some final thoughts. What would be your last thing somebody should get out of this if they're even thinking about doing it?

DeBorah Hill:

I would say use massage as a regular part of your health and your wellness routine and definitely use Thai massage if you really want to go deeper, if you really want to have your energy levels boosted, if you want to relieve soreness and stiffness in your joints, if you want to feel more flexible and with these headaches and other sorts of pain, you want to go a little deeper with the Thai massage. It is like massage on steroids.

John Horton:

Well, that's a perfect way to end and I'm telling you everything you just said, it checks a lot of boxes for me, so I think I'm going to need to look into this.

DeBorah Hill:

Right. That's good to hear.

John Horton:

So thank you so much for spending some time with us today and really just illuminating a fascinating topic.

DeBorah Hill:

Thank you so much, John, for having me today and I hope you have a good day.

John Horton:

Thair massage is a different experience than your traditional hands-on massage. It's an active form of therapy with stretching and yoga-like poses that can benefit you both physically and mentally. So think about giving the ancient healing method a try and find out why it has been around for more than 2000 years. If you liked what you heard today, please hit the subscribe button and leave a comment to share your thoughts. Until next time, be well.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for listening to Health Essentials, brought to you by Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland Clinic Children's. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or visit ClevelandClinic.org/hepodcast. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace the advice of your own physician.