Nutrition Essentials | Debunking Food & Nutrition Myths with Julia Zumpano, RD

Podcast Transcript

John Horton:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Nutrition Essentials, an offshoot of our popular Health Essentials Podcast. I'm John Horton, your co-host, with registered dietitian Julia Zumpano.

Julia Zumpano:

Hey, John, I'm pumped about today's topic. We're going to be debunking some common nutrition myths. There's so much misinformation out there, and I think it's important people know the real science-backed answer to some of those questions that we all have regarding nutrition.

John Horton:

[inaudible 00:00:34] and Julia, I know people have questions, and you must get them all the time. I mean, I'm guessing you get tired of answering whether this is good to eat or bad to eat, but I guess that's just kind of part of the territory when you have that hard D after your name, right?

Julia Zumpano:

Absolutely. But I love answering questions, and I love being able to provide good, solid nutrition information.

John Horton:

Well, Julia, I get the sense that good advice is a lot like fruits and vegetables. We can never get enough of them when it comes to nutrition. So, let's separate fact from fiction and fill folks up with some healthy diet tips.

Julia Zumpano:

Can't wait.

John Horton:

So, Julia, when we came up with the idea for this podcast, it all started with you just sharing how you are constantly getting the same questions over and over and over again. And we thought, man, we should just tackle those right here so you can answer them for everybody to hear.

Julia Zumpano:

Absolutely. And one of the things that confuses people is science changes; it's not just that there's a lot of misinformation out there, but we continue to evolve and administer new nutrition studies, and then have new data. So, the science changes, and the recommendations may alter, and change slightly. So, I think that can create a lot of confusion as well.

John Horton:

Without a doubt. And with all that being said, we are going to give people the best advice they could possibly get at this moment. So, let's kind of jump in. And I know the one question that we wanted to start with, because you hear it all the time, is that eating healthy is just too expensive. I know that's a complaint people have is they get that grocery store bill, and it's never going down, but talk to us about that. I mean, can you eat well on a budget?

Julia Zumpano:

Absolutely. You can definitely eat healthy on a budget. Now, overall, food costs have increased. So, we are fighting with just generally an inflation in food costs. So, this is a good time to really evaluate what you're purchasing week by week. Looking at your grocery list and screening out some of those items you may not need or may not be serving you appropriately nutritionally. So, I usually start there, looking at beverages, sugar-sweetened beverages specifically, that you may not need, snack foods that you may not need, condiments that you may not need, things like that. So, you really want to look at those items that are going to offer very little nutrition and cost a good amount, especially some of those drinks.

John Horton:

Oh, that definitely makes sense. So, when you're looking at drinks, then, since you kind of brought that up first, it sounds like you're probably not a fan of the sugary sodas and things like that. What should people look for then to sub in instead of that so they get a little nutritional punch with what they're consuming?

Julia Zumpano:

Well, really, when it comes to beverages, I don't think spending money on beverages is really worth a good budget, because most of our nutrition's going to come through our food. Now, any milk or milk alternatives would be a good choice to purchase to add to your grocery bill. So, milk, milk alternatives, any yogurt drinks, anything you might want to utilize to make a smoothie, or a protein shake would be a great choice from a beverage standpoint. If you're a coffee drinker, I think that's fine. If you're a tea drinker, that's also another [inaudible 00:04:13] great choice-

John Horton:

...budget for coffee. I will always make sure there's that.

Julia Zumpano:

…absolutely. Absolutely. And coffee has a lot of benefits, as do teas. So, those are really the basics of what you really need. You don't need any juices, sodas or artificially sweetened beverages. I mean, those cost a lot of money. And you could save a lot from not spending on those items and put it toward some of those more healthy items that tend to be a little more pricey, but that may not make it on your grocery list because it's consumed by other things.

John Horton:

Well, let's kind of look at it that way then.

As you're putting together your grocery list and kind of budgeting everything out, how should you divvy up those funds? What should be the top priority for the money that you're spending?

Julia Zumpano:

Well, so top priority looks at lean sources of protein. So, lean meats are protein from plant-based sources as well. So, that could be legumes. A combination of different sources of protein are going to give you the most nutrient benefit, but also be the best on your budget, because we know meat can be expensive. So, if you offset some of those protein, meat protein sources, with plant-based sources, or eggs, beans, tofu, even dairy sources like cottage cheese and Greek yogurt, then we can have a good variety of protein and save some money. So, protein should be up there. Definitely one of the number one things you're looking at, prioritizing.

And next would be fruits and vegetables. So, fresh produce, that's very important. If you're not able to purchase fresh produce just due to the cost, frozen produce is a great alternative.

John Horton:

I was going to ask that, because you obviously know the frozen and the canned, and all that sort of stuff. So, it sounds like, nutritionally, you still can get a lot of what you're looking for out of those, but is there anything you need to do? I think I've heard you need to maybe rinse off some of the stuff that's in cans, especially if it's in that kind of sugary syrup.

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah, I would avoid any sugary syrup-type fruits. Just buy it in its own juice. A lot of times, you can find it canned in its own juice. And if that's all you can find with the heavy syrup, definitely drain and rinse. But frozen fruit doesn't have any of that syrup. So, that's another really good way to go. And you can tend to buy them in big bags, and big bulky bags again, and they can last a long time, and you can save some money that way. With veggies, canned veggies are just fine as long as they're, again, drained and rinsed. Canned beans are very economical and a great way to get in plant-based protein. So, again, drain and rinse.

John Horton:

You kind of brought up the whole bulky purchases. And I want to look at that a little bit, too, because I'd imagine if you kind of plan things out, you might be able to save a little bit by buying some of those larger packages. And then, it's just a matter of planning your week and kind of prepping those meals, having everything ready so that you're kind of good to go in those days coming up. And it's just a matter of maybe reheating or thawing it out and serving.

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. I'm a huge fan of bulk shopping. There's many grocery stores that you can do some of that bulk shopping — looking at some of your grains and dry goods to bulk. So, oats or brown or wild rice, dried whole-grain pasta, those are great sources. Any canned foods like canned tomatoes, if you're making soup during this time of year, or canned beans, like we mentioned, olives in a can — those are some of the things I buy in bulk and always have them to put together a quick easy meal or a soup. And even some of your meats you can buy in bulk if you have a deep freezer, that's another great way to save some money.

John Horton:

And I know we've all been at that spot, especially if you have families where everybody gets home late, and you're like, "Ugh, I don't have the energy or the time to make dinner." And you end up ordering a pizza. And as we're talking about saving money, it's pricey when you order out. And it always costs a little bit more. I take it this is one of those instances where if you plan it, you can cut down that overall food bill even by taking out some of that takeout kind of special time food.

Julia Zumpano:

Absolutely. Eating out and takeout, ordering in, whatever it might be, does definitely costs more money than preparing a meal at home. So, you can even offset that by planning ahead, or planning quick and healthy meals that you can have in your freezer that you can prepare in minutes, that just takes just as long as maybe calling and ordering a pizza and waiting for it.

So, there's a bulk frozen noodle and meats, and prepared meals that you could just cook up in a skillet quickly. There's cauliflower crust veggie pizzas that you can purchase that are frozen that you can easily throw in the oven. So, things that you know are modestly healthy, that have some nutritional benefit, of course, aren't going to be as healthy for you as cooking a meal from scratch, but again, a better choice than purchasing it from a restaurant or a takeout, because it's going to be able to have less fat, less salt, most likely less carbs. You're going to be able to read that label, educate yourself on what you're consuming and be able to adjust your portion appropriately. The other great benefit of doing that is you can always supplement with a side of veggies or a side salad to offset the portions.

John Horton:

Well, those are some great tips. And I think if we follow those, we can all bring our bills down just a little bit, make things a little bit more comfortable.

Julia Zumpano:

The biggest thing with budgeting is planning ahead. It really comes down to planning ahead.

John Horton:

Well, that's all about that. You can shop sales, you can do all that great stuff that we were just talking about, and get stocked and be ready to go.

Julia Zumpano:

Absolutely.

John Horton:

Another thing that kind of comes up, and it's kind of related to price, and it involves organic food. And I think we all have this notion that organic food is somehow better for you and would be the priority to purchase. What's the truth on that? Is that something that we need to look to do, or is it a little bit of a, sometimes you don't really need it?

Julia Zumpano:

So, absolutely, in some cases, organic food can be a better choice. Now, I don't like to say it as being more healthy, because a strawberry is a strawberry, whether it's organic or conventionally raised, but what we do know is that there are certain fruits and vegetables that tend to carry more pesticide and herbicide exposure. So, if you're looking to purchase more organic, then I generally tend to encourage to buy the Dirty Dozen Organic.

John Horton:

I love that name. It definitely draws your attention when you talk about the Dirty Dozen of produce.

Julia Zumpano:

Totally. So, the environmental working group puts out a Dirty Dozen each year. We don't have the list for 2026 yet, but for 2025, we have the dozen foods that have the highest exposure of pesticides and herbicides. So, if you are going to choose organic, you want to look at that list and really prioritize those foods.

John Horton:

What are some examples?

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. So, spinach and strawberries. So, think of things that have a very delicate texture, a delicate outside. So, spinach, strawberries, some of those dark greens, those leafy greens like collard and kale, and mustard greens, grapes and peaches, cherries, nectarines, pears, apples, blackberries, blueberries and potatoes are what was on the Dirty Dozen for 2025.

John Horton:

And those are all produce items that are more apt to have, you said, those pesticides on them and things like that. So, buying organic, you're going to kind of limit your exposure to that bad stuff that we really don't want to get in our system.

Julia Zumpano:

Right. But I can't emphasize enough, if you can't find one of these items organic, or it's too pricey for you, it is better to buy the conventionally raised version of them, versus not buying them at all. Because a grape is better than having no grape, whether it's organic or conventionally raised.

So, my trick to that is, and oftentimes I sometimes can't even find some of these items organic, depending on what grocery store I go to, I tend to use a little bit of baking soda and water when I wash my fruits and vegetables. And that can help break down some of the pesticides and break down some of what's being held on the outside of that produce, and you can then better rinse it off. So, you can use anything, like a mild vinegar or a baking soda. There's fruit and vegetable washes that you can do, some lemon juice, anything there that can kind of break down that skin and help extract some of that off when you wash it.

John Horton:

Man, my grandmother was ahead of her time. I remember her always washing all the fruit in vinegar every time. I thought she was nuts, but now that I'm a little older, you got to realize grandmas know what they're doing.

Julia Zumpano:

She was extremely clever, I will say, yes.

John Horton:

All right. So, we have our Dirty Dozen that we just kind of went through, where you said those are kind of things where maybe if you can buy organic, and it works out, maybe lean that way. But then, there's also something called the Clean 15. I got to have that yin and the yang here.

Julia Zumpano:

Absolutely.

John Horton:

What is the Clean 15, and how should we approach those?

Julia Zumpano:

Sure. These are the 15 fruits and vegetables that are the cleanest. They have the least amount of pesticides, herbicide exposure. So, they're safe to buy conventionally. You don't need to spend the extra money to buy them organic. So, these do tend to have tougher skin, or something you can peel on the outside. So, something like a pineapple, sweet corn, avocados, papayas, onions, asparagus, cabbage, watermelon. So, things that have more of a tougher skin on the outside.

John Horton:

I have to say, because I thought it would've been with the skin. And I was a little surprised when you said apples were in the dirty dozen. If you would've quizzed me ahead of time, I would've thought those might've been in a Clean 15, but it sounds like those are ones where you want to make sure you either buy organic or you make sure to wash them pretty thoroughly.

Julia Zumpano:

Absolutely. And a lot of people like to eat the skin of the apples. So, if you peel the skin, you're probably going to reduce the pesticide exposure, but the skin provides so much nutrition that we want to keep that skin on.

John Horton:

The organic thing is just so tough. And even when you start looking at things like organic meats and things like that. Does it make a difference there if you spend that extra money and kind of get the organic product?

Julia Zumpano:

I do think it can make a big difference, specifically when you're looking at inflammation. So, we do know some of the hormones that are added to meat can cause more inflammation. So, when we look at, or even the processing of some of the meat, some of the ingredients, and the items that are being added to process the meat, can cause more inflammation. So, when you're really looking to decrease that inflammation, I do encourage grass-fed meats, organically raised meats, free-range eggs, anything that you can do to reduce any of those added antibiotics, or added exposures of some of the chemicals, or nitrates being added.

John Horton:

It's amazing that there's that much that kind of comes through, that kind of passes through that meat that just comes maybe from the more conventional way versus the grass-fed beef or other animals. It kind of blows your mind.

Julia Zumpano:

It does. It does. I mean, really, we are what we eat, literally. So, you got to think about it that way, too.

John Horton:

Well, the whole organic food, I've always chuckled, and I grew up in Chardon, maple syrup country, east of Cleveland there. And I got to say, I always got to chuckle when you'd see organic maple syrup because I can't even imagine what you have to do to make that organic because it's pretty much a pretty natural process no matter how you do it.

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. And that's where you can use your own basic judgment. Common knowledge. Think about how maple syrup is made. And when you're buying it fresh, does it really need to be organic or not? And that's the time where you make an educated choice, right?

John Horton:

Yeah, like honey, too. Those bees aren't doing anything different to get the organic label.

Julia Zumpano:

But you mean, you got to look at farm-raised fish versus wild-caught fish. I mean, they are raised differently. So, you do have to think about things like that. The condition of the water is different.

John Horton:

So, with that, then, are you better off getting the wild fish versus farm?

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. Wild fish is a better choice versus farmed, again, if you can afford it. But farm fish is better than no fish. So, just keep that in mind.

John Horton:

We just have great tips coming everywhere today.

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. Shooting out in all directions here.

John Horton:

It is.

Well, let's shift gears a little bit and start talking about weight a little bit, because that is always something that comes up when people are talking about food. And one of the big questions that gets asked are whether carbs and grain products are bad for your weight. And I know this has even taken on more … seems like more emphasis on it, given the new federal guidelines with the whole food pyramid, so-

Julia Zumpano:

…so, carbohydrates are a macronutrient. We need all three macronutrients: carbs, proteins, fats. We need them all. And certain people need a little bit more of the carbs. Some people need less. It really is based on your activity, your current weight, if you're trying to lose or gain weight, et cetera. But in general, carbohydrates are essential, and we do need them. We need them for energy. We need them for nutrients.

John Horton:

[inaudible 00:17:55] cut them out.

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah, don't cut them out. But with that new inverted pyramid, they're at the bottom. So, that gives us an image of, wow, we really shouldn't be eating a lot of these. But I think most commonly what's misunderstood is, what really are whole grains?

So, when you think of whole grains, they are truly more of a one-ingredient grain, like oats or barley or millet or rye or buckwheat. So, those are whole grains, wild rice. Most of us are not consuming those grains. We're consuming a bread that may be highly processed and says it has whole grain flour, or a cereal that's highly processed and says it has whole grains, or a granola bar or a cracker or a pretzel. Those are processed foods. And I think as Americans, we've confused ourselves and put those categories of processed snacky carbs into the category of whole grains and are consuming way too many of them.

John Horton:

Just looking at bread, I mean, you brought that up. I mean, there's such a huge difference in what you're getting out of a slice of bread. When you look at the basic white bread that I think a lot of us probably grew up eating, and everything else, and then kind of that whole grain bread where you see the little seeds and everything in it, there's a huge difference diet nutritionally, depending on which one you're choosing, correct?

Julia Zumpano:

Right. Yes. But then, there's all those breads in between that they use some of that whole-grain flour, they may use a little molasses, they may use a little honey to make the bread look darker, and it's falsified as being a whole grain, where it may have some whole-grain flour, but it has a lot of other stuff in there that you don't necessarily need.

So, I think … I came from an Eastern European family. My mom made bread. There were three ingredients in bread. That was it. It was water, salt and flour. That was about it [inaudible 00:19:58] some yeast, something to make that bread rise, right? So, when you think of bread, it really needs three basic ingredients. When it has a laundry list of things in there, then that should be a red flag. So, there's so many products out there. There's the 100% whole-grain bread, there's the white bread. But then, think about how many there are in between that create so much confusion for people.

John Horton:

Just that basic wheat bread that you look at, and you look, and you go, "Man, there's really not much extra in here that seems like it's good for you."

Julia Zumpano:

Right, right. And is the first ingredient really 100% whole wheat or is it bleached in enriched flour? Which most of them have enriched flour in them, which is not necessarily a whole grain.

John Horton:

Yeah. So, is this an instance, then, when we're talking about carbs, which is kind of where we started here, that if you're going to take your carbs in, you want to make sure you get your carbs with as much extra nutrition, that nutritional value as you can possibly jam in there.

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. And that's where, when you look at the pyramid, we're looking at carbs from whole foods. So, we're looking at carbs from things like potatoes and sweet potatoes, legumes, oats, fruits, vegetables. Those are where we want to get our carbs. We want to minimize the grains as being our primary source of carbs. Nothing wrong with grains. They're still included. They should just not be consumed in large amounts.

John Horton:

That's funny because you just brought up you can get carbs from fruits and vegetables, and I don't think any of us really think that way. You think of carbs very simply as just kind of breads and grains and pastas and things like that. But I mean, can you really get that many carbs just off of the fruits and the veggies?

Julia Zumpano:

Absolutely, yeah. A traditional-sized banana has about 30 grams of carbs. And when you think of mango, or any fruit for that matter, apples and pears and sweet potatoes, and any of the squash family, those are carbohydrates. Beans, the entire family category of beans are carbohydrates. So, you can certainly get a lot of carbs from whole foods.

And then, that's why we really want to minimize some of those grains, because really, most Americans aren't eating whole grains. So, we want to favor the produce form of carbohydrates.

And dairy is a source of carbohydrate as well. So, yogurt has carbs, milk has carbs. So, those are another contributor to your total carbohydrate intake.

John Horton:

So, when we start talking about carbs as it relates to our weight, then, is it just a matter of taking out those, like I said, kind of more of the grainy carbs, and going the other direction if you want to try to use your diet for a little weight management?

Julia Zumpano:

Yes. I would begin to remove all those refined carbohydrates, or even pseudo-whole grains like crackers or pretzels or cereal or breads, and start to replace them with produce-based carbs, like beans and potatoes and squash and vegetables and fruit and dairy.

John Horton:

Yeah, no, it's a great tip. And I think it really kind of flips how a lot of us think about carbs, because we just think of them so much in one way, and there's so many other places we can get that.

Julia Zumpano:

And I think the new inverted pyramid really homes in on that. The whole point is to really stimulate that thought process, which is what I really like about it.

John Horton:

Now, on the same page as we're talking about weight, there's another thing where people think, if you eat foods with fats, it's going to make you fat. Simple process here, fats equal fat. I'm guessing that it's not quite as direct of a correlation as what we might think.

Julia Zumpano:

No, but that was the train of thought for a very long time. Even as a newly trained dietitian, that's what we are told. So, it's interesting, and that's not necessarily true. Now, I think some of that comes from the fact that when we have those macronutrients that I discussed before, those three main sources of nutrition: carbs, proteins and fats, when you think of the amount of calories that each of those categories provides, fat provides the most. So, fat provides 9 calories per gram, where carbs, and protein each only provide 4 calories per gram.

John Horton:

Wow.

Julia Zumpano:

So, you're getting-

John Horton:

…a huge difference.

Julia Zumpano:

…yeah. You're getting over double the amount of calories per the same volume when you look at a fat. So, the reason that fats have gotten a bad name is because they can load up calories quick. So, think of an avocado and how many calories can be in a whole avocado if you eat the whole thing, which someone might not flinch at. You're maybe up to 600 calories in fat. And even extra virgin olive oil, phenomenal source of healthy fat, but you're up to 4 tablespoons a day, that's almost 800 calories. So, you do want to be mindful of your portions of fat, but it really looks at overall calories.

So, we know that a diet high in good fats, even 35% of calories from good fats, has been shown to help manage weight, help improve heart health, decrease inflammation, help manage blood sugars. But we have to be aware of the fact that that's a good chunk of our calories. So, we have to adjust elsewhere. The benefit of fats is that they are satiating. They make you feel satisfied. They add a lot of flavor to food, and they really help decrease that appetite a little bit. So, it's such an important category of food.

John Horton:

Now, you had mentioned the healthy fats, and I think you kind of rolled through some of those, like the avocados, and fish — I know we often talk about as a healthy fat, the omega-3 fatty acids and things like that. I think a lot of this talk, though, about fats not being good for you comes from those saturated fats and the heavily processed foods. And even red meats are kind of that tipping point in the middle to where I know there's a lot of discussion.

Where do we go with that? I mean, how do you moderate that to make sure you're kind of staying within guidelines and not pushing yourself to where you're going to tip the scale a little heavier than what you want?

Julia Zumpano:

Great question. So, we want to focus on plant-based fats. So, like I mentioned, extra virgin olive oil, avocados, olives, nuts and seeds. Those are great sources of good fats, and they provide a lot of other nutrients. They might provide fiber and protein and antioxidants, et cetera. So, they pack a punch.

When you look at fat from animal sources, you're going to get more saturated fat. And we do know saturated fat can contribute to increased levels of bad cholesterol called LDL cholesterol, and that can increase your risk of developing heart disease, like a heart attack or stroke. So, essentially, we really do want to still limit saturated fat. We don't want to fully avoid it. It doesn't have to be completely avoided. Guidelines are about 10% of total calories for the day should come from saturated fat. So, that means that if you're choosing meat, red meat, you want to choose lean cuts of red meat.

If you're choosing butter or eggs that have saturated fat, you want to offset that with other sources of plant-based fats so you don't tip over that recommended amount of 10% of your total calories from saturated fat. So, when you can choose lean meats, that's going to be the way to go. And if you want to incorporate some of those other saturated fats, like a little bit in cheese, a little bit in butter, if you want to do a little dark chocolate, et cetera, then you just have to adjust your portion of those foods to make sure you're not exceeding saturated fat.

John Horton:

Yeah. And it seems like so much of it is just being aware. The other day, I was at the store, there were some pepperoni rolls that looked really good. I'm almost embarrassed to tell you this, Julie, because I know that's probably not on the more approved list, but they looked really good. And at home, I had one, it was great. And then, I looked at the little packing label, the nutrition label, and I was absolutely floored by how much fat was in that.

Julia Zumpano:

I mean, that's all fat, really. How much was it? Do you remember?

John Horton:

It might've been like 34, 35 grams of fat. And because I was blown away. I'm like, "Man, I run a lot, but I don't run enough to take off 35 grams of fat from a pepperoni roll in a day." But it's one of those … you kind of realize, and I know we've had these discussions a lot, if you feel like having something, you have it, but then you don't have it every day.

Julia Zumpano:

Right. And you have to know your risk, right? So, you have to know your risk factors. If heart disease runs in your family, if you have high cholesterol, if you have additional risk factors for heart disease, like high blood pressure or high triglycerides, or you have a little bit of abdominal weight gain, if you have some of those risk factors, then you may need to be a little bit more cautious. If you know someone like yourself, you're a runner, you may not have family history of heart disease, you can be a little bit more lenient. But I think education is key, and understanding where saturated fat comes from so you can properly adjust your portion and frequency of those foods.

John Horton:

I've got some of those other issues. I'm just hoping my cardiologist, Dr. Singh, who we've had on here before, maybe she skips listening to this episode, and I can kind of just let that one slide by for a little bit.

Julia Zumpano:

I can send it to her, John, just to make sure, if you wanted.

John Horton:

I watch. So, I figured it was a one-time thing, and I got to be honest, it was really good, so…

Julia Zumpano:

Good, good.

John Horton:

It was worth it for the day.

Julia Zumpano:

Some of those things, sometimes you're like, "Oh, I'm so glad I looked at that after." I have done that before. Even with something like you buy a chia seed pudding, and then you look at it, I'm like, "Wow, that was a lot of calories or even a lot of fat."

John Horton:

There were two in the package, and I don't know if I'm going to eat the other one or not. We'll see what happens with that.

Julia Zumpano:

Cut it up and share it. That's what I always do.

John Horton:

Oh, there you go. Shared [inaudible 00:30:09] calories don't count.

Julia Zumpano:

Divide it by five people, and then it's not even as significant.

John Horton:

There you go. It doesn't even count.

Julia Zumpano:

Right.

John Horton:

All right. So, we've kind of talked through the fats, and really, we were focused there on a lot of the animal proteins and the fats you get from that. Going 180 degrees here, plant-based diets are all the rage. And you hear a lot of people kind of going that way, adopting a more vegetarian diet or even vegan diet. The one thing you hear with that, though, is whether or not you can get enough protein if you're on a plant-based diet. So, can you, or do you need to supplement or do other things?

Julia Zumpano:

I really think it depends on the person because your protein needs vary, and based on your activity, your height, weight, sex, age, all those things make such a big impact on how much protein you need. But in general, you can meet your protein needs on a plant-based diet.

Now, certain plant-based diets may be fully plant-based, so therefore, they're not including any animal products, so no diary and eggs. Those types of diets will be a little bit more challenging to get your protein needs. If you are more of a vegetarian, where you're just choosing not to eat meat, but choosing to eat eggs and dairy, you will have an easier time meeting your protein needs. Nothing is impossible. This is where a dietitian could be very helpful. I will say that earlier in my career, I was seeing a large volume of vegans and vegetarians, plant-based diet eaters. And those have really decreased significantly over time. I think with the release of the Mediterranean diet, and the encouragement of a very balanced diet, and everything fits a little bit. So, I think that has moved away from that style of eating. But some people do still follow those practices, and I would completely encourage it because there is still good data that shows reduction of cardiovascular disease, diabetes management, weight management. So, if followed properly, meeting all your nutrient needs, it can be a healthy option.

John Horton:

And when you're following those needs, I mean, can you go with all the powders, and everything that you see out there now? Can you really fill in the gaps with those?

Julia Zumpano:

You can. You can. We want to utilize protein powders in a convenience, and an as-needed basis. Ideally, you don't want that to be the only way you can meet your protein needs, but there's a lot of great options you can add in to help you hit your targets for sure.

John Horton:

Well, kind of moving through our list here, one of the things we also wanted to tackle was this whole notion of detox diets. [inaudible 00:32:55] You hear that all the time. People go on these-

Julia Zumpano:

…all the time.

John Horton:

...break your diet, or this or that, where you're just going to cleanse your body of all the toxins, the bad things that are in there.

Julia Zumpano:

Sure.

John Horton:

Do those work? I mean, are they worth doing?

Julia Zumpano:

So, yes, and no. So, when we look at those detox diets, they're extreme. They cut out almost everything. So, you're looking at a water fast or a celery juice fast or just a fruit and vegetable diet for whatever, three to five days, 10 days, whatever it might be. Now, if you're doing them short term, there's really no harm. And the reason people are seeing benefits is because they're cutting all the junk out. Anyone's going to lose weight when they're just drinking water or celery juice. You feel better because you've eliminated all of those junk foods that are bogging your system down. That doesn't necessarily mean you're detoxifying. It just means that you've eliminated the foods that are maybe causing your fatigue or your bloating or your headaches or your achiness or your fluid retention, whatever it might be. And we're now down to just eating very simply or eating very little. And you've given your body some time to recover off of eating all that stuff, and breaking it all down. So, most of the time people do feel better and do see weight loss with these plans.

Now, I like to think of it as, OK, this is a kickstart. Do it for, let's say, a day, or two. That's fine. No harm done. When you're doing it for a long period of time, there's more potential for harm. So, you really want to avoid long-term plans like that. Your body has its own detoxification system. What clogs that system is eating junk, not sleeping, alcohol, things like that. So, if we stay away from the basics of what we know is healthy, then we can keep that detoxification system working at its prime. And if we really adhere to a very clean, whole foods-based diet, that system will work beautifully. So, ideally, you don't need these detox plans. But if it's a kickstart for you, if it gets you on the right track or shifts your mind in a good place, there's probably no harm if you're doing it for less than a day or two.

John Horton:

I love that when we were talking earlier, you had talked about it as being the power of a reset. And it's almost like you're just giving your body a day or so to get back to a baseline, and then restarting. And if you look at that-

Julia Zumpano:

…we have to reboot our computers all the time. We need a reboot. Sometimes, that's what it does. And that's good, that's OK, if you're using it for that. It's not intended to be used as a long-term plan. And the goal would be, is use those two or three days to plan what you're going to do when you're done. Plan the style of eating, go grocery shopping, look up recipes. You're not planning all this time you're not eating. So, let's focus on what we're going to do when we are done with that short detox or cleanse, and really focus on the change, the part that's going to continue to make you feel good.

John Horton:

Yeah. Sometimes, I don't think people realize the garbage that we eat, and I know I've done this, where you eat a certain way for a while, and then you adjust your diet. And if you swing back to that, and have you pick up some greasy food they used to love, and eat all the time, and you don't feel good after you eat it. And you realize, this stuff is not great for my body. It's a little bad for my digestive system. Just nothing feels good when it goes in.

Julia Zumpano:

Right. And it bogs your system down. And then, think about that time and time again, over and over again. So, depending on how frequently you're consuming these foods, that's most likely why you don't feel your prime. And then, when you're off of those, that's why some of these plans work. It's really not the miracle celery juice or detox tincture or liquid that you're consuming. It's really what you're not consuming that is most likely going to make the biggest impact.

John Horton:

So, you're telling me celery juice is not the answer to everything.

Julia Zumpano:

No, but there's benefits of celery juice. Have at it. But if you're eating fast food and drinking celery juice, I guarantee you it's not going to do much for you.

John Horton:

Julia, anyone who's listened to this podcast knows that you often talk really glowingly about intermittent fasting and things like that. And it almost feels like when you think about what a detox diet is overall, intermittent fasting is kind of little bits of that, that you kind of let your body reset and recalibrate just every day if you do the kind of longer fast at night, or extend it out a little bit. Is there just a lot of power in that if people are looking for ways to detox?

Julia Zumpano:

I do think that intermittent fasting can play a role. It's not for everyone. You just have to be mindful of medications and medical history, et cetera. But for those who intermittent fasting is a healthy option for, it can be very helpful to allow your body some time to rest and digest, is what we say. Let that parasympathetic nervous system work, rest and digest, and do its job as you're resting, and sleeping. And again, most of us have gotten into the habit of eating longer, more hours of the day than not eating. [inaudible 00:38:22] We're not intended to do that. We're not intended to be eating 20 hours out of a 24-hour day. I think it's safe to say you can cut your eating down to a 12-hour window. That's what most of us can manageably do. If you can get it down to an eight- to 10-hour window, great. It doesn't have to be every day. It can be a couple times a week. But your body may thank you for that rest.

John Horton:

Yeah. And that does, when you say that, it sounds so complicated, but like you said, a 12-hour window, that just means you eat between 8:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m.

Julia Zumpano:

Exactly.

John Horton:

When you look at it that way, it doesn't seem that complicated. I mean, heck, you should be sleeping for a good chunk of that.

Julia Zumpano:

Right. And that will help you sleep most likely. And if you sleep on a moderately, not a full, belly, people tend to sleep better and sleep more deeply. And it allows you, too, to cut off the eating and turn on your nighttime. Now, you're preparing your body to get ready for rest. And then, it does enhance better, deeper sleep and more rest. And then, overall, more rest has been proven to help support weight loss and help support better food choices throughout the day. I mean, everyone knows when they're completely tanked at three o'clock, and they go into a break room and there's donuts or cookies or whatever. I mean, you're so apt to grab one of those because you're dying for that energy. But if you're already in a good state of mind, a good high energy, you'll look past that.

John Horton:

Well, Julia, we've covered so much information here today, and kind of been all over the place with fats and proteins and carbs, and just everything. To bring everything home, there's one question that comes up a lot where people think if you're going to eat healthy: If you're going to eat a nutritious diet, that means you have to give up certain foods that you love, whether it's ice cream, whether it's, I don't know, pepperoni rolls, let's say, for instance, just out of the blue. Does having a good diet mean you have to give up these sorts of things?

Julia Zumpano:

No, not at all. Not at all. As a dietitian, I can speak for most dietitians: We are not fans of deprivation. We want people to expand the amount of food that they can eat. So, of course, we want to expand healthy choices first, but everybody has their favorites. I love certain desserts. And if someone told me you can never, ever have a dessert again, that would make me sad. I don't want to ever think about that.

John Horton:

And then, you crave it. It starts [inaudible 00:41:00].

Julia Zumpano:

You crave it. [inaudible 00:41:02] Yeah. But if someone said, "Hey, you could have this once a week, or you can have this little piece every third day, or you can have a decadent dessert once a month." So, that can be encouraging. Yeah, I can handle that. I can deal with that. That's great. And most of those times, as you mentioned before, some of these indulgences don't make us feel so good. So, when we're eating healthy and we eat these indulgences, and you're kind of like, "Ooh, that doesn't make me feel that great." It was worth it, but it is also self-limiting. When you do eat healthy, you find that some of those heavier foods can you bog your system down a little bit. So, you may naturally start to decrease the frequency of those foods and portion of those foods because you're noticing that you may not feel as good on them. That doesn't make them less desirable. They still taste wonderful, but you might think twice and when and how often or how much you have on those foods.

So, I would say that nothing's off the table, every food can fit, every drink can fit. It's just a matter of what are your health goals? How can we get you to those goals and still include these foods?

John Horton:

It sounds like portion control. You talk about that all the time.

Julia Zumpano:

Portion, and frequency, I think, is big. And then, I'll even work … soda's a big one that I'll have to work with people on how to finagle the right amount that they're happy with, and I feel that will still benefit their health. So, we might go down to, from a 20-ounce to a can to the small little 8-ounce cans. So, there's a lot of finagling, there's a lot of education in mixed of it, but there's nothing that needs to be eliminated at all.

John Horton:

And the thing is, it sounds like, it's personal for each person. Somebody may, hey, they have to have that little scratch that itch when it comes to a soda. It might be a cookie, might be a pepperoni roll, whatever it is.

Julia Zumpano:

Exactly.

John Horton:

With how you can get it, satisfy your kind of craving for it, but just don't do it in a way that undermines your overall diet and nutrition.

Julia Zumpano:

And enjoy it when you do it. Do it full-heartedly. Don't feel guilty. Don't have any negative feelings around it. Just create joy around it because the food brings you joy, and we never want to take that away. That's important.

John Horton:

I felt pretty happy after I had that pepperoni roll.

Julia Zumpano:

Good. And that's key. That's extremely important.

John Horton:

Well, Julia, like I said, we've covered so much here. Just final thoughts here, because I know you get all these questions all the time — what do you want people to kind of take away from this podcast and this overall discussion?

Julia Zumpano:

So, biggest takeaway is that food is medicine. So, food is our way of healing our bodies. It's a great way to nurture ourselves, to give us natural energy, to support our muscles, our hair, our nails, our skin, our entire system, our heart, our organs. So, focus on that thought. Food is medicine. That doesn't mean any of those outlier foods that aren't real foods, that are more processed foods, can't fit, but we want to make them very minimal in portion and frequency.

John Horton:

All right. Well, hopefully, if everyone listens to this podcast, maybe you'll get a few less of these questions moving forward here. But I know you're always up for answering anything that people want to ask.

Julia Zumpano:

Always happy to help.

John Horton:

Great. Well, this has been just a fabulous podcast, and we knew we were going to have fun when we talked about doing it, and I'm pretty sure we did.

Julia Zumpano:

Great episode.

John Horton:

Without a doubt.

So, if you liked what you heard today, please hit the subscribe button and leave a comment to share your thoughts. And until next time, eat well.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for listening to Health Essentials, brought to you by Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland Clinic Children's. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or visit clevelandclinic.org/podcast. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace the advice of your own physician.