How to Deal with A Control Freak with Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling

Podcast Transcript

John Horton:

Hello and welcome to another Health Essentials Podcast. I'm John Horton, your host.

Dealing with someone who's a control freak can be frustrating, to say the least. Everything needs to be done their way. What you want means nothing. This sort of one-sided relationship can leave you feeling powerless as your thoughts and ideas get trampled. Over time, it can take a big toll on your self-esteem, but there are ways to navigate this dynamic and protect your point of view.

We're going to talk through that today with psychologist Susan Albers. Dr. Albers is one of the many experts at Cleveland Clinic who pop into our weekly podcast to help us succeed in life. So with that, let's find out what you can do to gain some control around a control freak.

Welcome back to the podcast, Dr. Albers. Thanks for swinging by for another chat.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

Thank you so much for having me here. It's so great to have this opportunity to talk with you about another mental health issue.

John Horton:

Well, and this is a big one, because our topic today revolves around dealing with control freaks. So I guess to get us started, I feel like that's a term that gets tossed around a lot. I mean, we all like things a particular way. So what elevates somebody to kind of “control freak” status?

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

We all have control freaks in our lives. They may be our bosses, our parents, our friends, many people around us, or we may ourselves be a little bit of a control freak. Some important things to know about control is that we all need a little bit of control in our lives. It helps us to plan, to get things done, to be responsible. What we're talking about today is the extremes. On one end of the extreme is lack of control. That's when things feel a little chaotic, think: you're not paying attention. Today, we're talking about the other end of when there is hyper control, rigidness. And there are a lot of red flags of control freaks. Number one is how they make you feel. When you encounter a control freak, you often know it because you feel like you're walking on eggshells. They often make you-

John Horton:

…yes.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

…feel like you can't do anything right. Or you feel anxious. Sometimes, even afraid that you're going to get things wrong. And overall, a little exhausted and sometimes frustrated.

John Horton:

Definitely, without a doubt. We've all been there, where you feel like you can't even move because you're going to do something wrong or upset them or do something that just, like I said, doesn't fit into the kind of world or the narrative that they're setting.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

Yes. And you also know that this is a control freak because of the micromanaging. They will often hover around you or redo tasks or comment on how you've done something. So a classic example is that you are loading the dishwasher, and you walk away, and they come back and they rearrange it because you haven't done it right.

John Horton:

OK.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

That one is one that often comes up-

John Horton:

…I'm starting to worry now because-

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

…in counseling a lot.

John Horton:

…I do that.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

There's some things that we want more control over than others. It's also often a ... you feel like you're getting instructions versus having a conversation. So instead of having a collaborative conversation about what you're going to do this weekend, your partner may say to you, or the other individual may say to you, "This is what we're doing." It's not a question. It's a statement.

Also, it's monitoring behavior. So they may follow along behind you and critique how you are doing things. “You've missed this spot,” or they may rewrite your email or tell you how to do an errand or they may track you and say, "Oh, it's only 45 minutes away and it took you 20 minutes. Where have you been for the last bit?" They may monitor how you do things, when you do things, why you do things. And this can kind of weigh heavy for someone who is on the other end of the spectrum.

They also want to often be in control of plans, making schedules, picking where they go to dinner. And you can always spot someone who is a little on that controlling side when you're planning a vacation. They often want the whole schedule, want to plan everything that's going on. And the flip side is that sometimes, that's really helpful, right? Somebody in your life who's taking control of the situation. The downside is that sometimes, it doesn't take into perspective of everyone in the group.

John Horton:

Well, I got to say, I'm starting to feel a little anxiety here that I'm seeing a lot of myself in some of this stuff. And I got to say, my kids are going to crack up about the dishwasher thing because I have moved stuff and I will stand by that. There's a certain way it goes in, but...

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

Yeah. Certain ways are better than others. And you hit on a good point, that we often have this misperception that control freaks are … it's a negative, but there can be some ways in which controlling people or people who like control really thrive in certain professions, medical professions, or if they're a project manager, teachers, police officers, doctors. These all are people who, if they have more of a controlling nature, can really channel that into their profession and it can be really beneficial.

John Horton:

Yeah. We might be able to add podcast hosts on that now, too.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

Exactly.

John Horton:

So we're kind of talking about this, like what we see and kind of how you kind of recognize a control freak. What are the psychological reasons that kind of push somebody to act this way, aside from wanting to make sure the dishes are as clean as possible?

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

The other misconception is that people who are controlling are trying to control you, but what they really are trying to control is their inner world, that they are feeling anxious. And by trying to control the external world, they are really trying to control what is going on in the internal world. So if the external world is calm, then they feel calmer on the inside.

There are also a lot of traits that tend to go hand in hand with people who are more controlling. And I think of it a little bit like an iceberg, that on the surface, we see the controlling behavior. But we got to look underneath to see a little bit about what's going on. And these are people who are often wired to be maybe more perfectionistic or responsible. They're a little bit more anxious or they may have OCD traits. This is often very common in people who are more controlling because they feel much more at ease when things are in order, or some narcissistic traits as well.

But at the end of the day, when you peel back and look underneath it, what you often see is that this person who's very controlling in nature came from a home that is often chaotic, unpredictable. They may have experienced trauma or, this is something I've often seen counseling, is that they are the parentified child or they are a caretaker of someone. So they've learned these traits as a way of survival. So sometimes, it comes across as very negative. But when you really understand that it is a survival trait and that early in their life, that their fight-or-flight system got kicked off very early, it puts a little bit of a different spin on it.

There are also people who get a little bit of that dopamine reward in the brain, unlike maybe other people, when they do that check mark off or that list or things are in order, they get a little bit of that good feeling or the rush. And finally, they have difficulty with delegating to other people because they feel like, if something else goes wrong or they hand it to someone else, then it leaves open the possibility that things could be chaotic or things could be out of control. And so giving that task to somebody else or trusting someone is very, very difficult.

John Horton:

Yeah. One of the things you kind of brought up, and I want to go back on, is whether control freaks are kind of born or whether they're made. I mean, is this just kind of something that comes out of our environment that kind of pushes us that way?

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

It's a little bit of both. In part, you may be wired to be more on the controlling side, that your personality is drawn in that way, that you are built in a way that you need more order control, your brain responds to it. But on the other hand, your environment can really play a part in pushing forward this need for control if you have grown up in this chaotic or unpredictable environment. I've had many clients who, in their adult life, struggle with control. But when we start to look back and unravel what is really behind it, they tell a lot of stories about needing more control in their life as an adult because their childhood was so unpredictable or unstable.

John Horton:

So Dr. Albers, as you've kind of described what makes someone a control freak. I'm guessing listeners immediately thought of someone in their life who checks a few of those boxes or maybe even looked at themselves and said, "Huh, this could be me." What are some strategies, I guess, for dealing with control freaks and to kind of handle those situations?

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

Number one is to reframe the term. It's a very negative term, “control freak.” And as soon as we say it, we have a reaction to it. And you may have even heard me today, as I was talking, that I struggled to say it because it's got a judgment to it. And anytime we put a label on someone, it impacts how we react to them, how we feel about them. So let's peel off that label of “control freak” and instead say, “someone who likes to be in control to manage their anxiety.” And think about just how that tweaks a little bit, your empathy toward them, and takes out some of the conflict that you may have. So number one is take away that term and think about it in a little bit of a different way, some gentle or more compassionate terms.

John Horton:

I'm already liking that, given where I think I'm seeing myself in this thing. So all right, definitely check that box.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

Second is, we want to gently name the cycle, helping to point out when it's happening, because people who are more on the controlling side, they will swear up and down that that is not their intent to undermine you or to make you feel like you're not doing it right. They really, truly feel like they're being helpful, responsible, efficient, very caring. So pointing it out in the moment is important. And don't wait because if you do, a lot of your feelings are going to fester and it can cause resentment. In the moment, you can really gently say, "I noticed that you are giving me some instructions on how to do this meeting and it makes me feel like you don't trust me." Or "When you tell me how to wash the dishes, I feel a little bit uncomfortable because I feel like you don't trust me on how to do it." So you could really gently point out in the moment what's happening and how it makes you feel. So it brings it into the room and into their awareness.

John Horton:

I'm going to step back a little bit, I think, of my dishwasher stuff after this conversation. I'm going to go with it, I think the stuff will get clean no matter where it's at on that bottom rack, so...

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

You can also use gentle but firm boundaries. And this is sometimes having to say no to what the controlling person in your life wants. And this could be really hard. So what's important is the tone that you use. If you have a confrontational tone, it can really escalate, and use what I call “gentle nos.” When you say the word “no,” there can be a very big reaction to it. But you can phrase it in different ways. You can say things like, "I can handle this." Or "Thanks, I've got this." Or "I'm going to do it this way." And instead of saying “no,” it just turns it around a little bit to be a little bit softer so you can create that boundary and still engage in the way that you want to, but not agreeing to do it in the way that they want you to do. And so that's just a little bit of a different way of thinking about how to respond.

John Horton:

It's amazing what a difference approach makes, because just even as you're laying those out as options and how to phrase things, you can see how it's going to hit a little differently when people hear it and it kind of softens it up a little bit and just makes it kind of easier to kind of handle the whole situation.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

You can also use some humor. This can lighten up the situation as well. I've had a couple in therapy where they were arguing about something being done a certain way and the wife turns to the husband and she goes, "Yes, sir." And it was just such a funny moment the way she said it and it just kind of startled him into awareness of, "Oh my gosh, I didn't realize I was giving an order." So humor can really change the moment in a lot of different ways.

You can also pause and tell the individual, "Let me think about that. I will come back to it and circle or around to it later." That way, you don't feel this pressure to answer or comply to whatever they're requesting in the moment.

You can also use the broken record technique. This is a classic. It's saying over and over again the same thing, something like, "Thanks, I got it." Or "Thanks, I'll take care of it," over and over again, and without deviating from that particular statement, can really be helpful.

With the controlling person in your life, you may know what their triggers are. So they may be triggered by the dishwasher or they may be triggered by what kind of plans that you're going to make. Sometimes, anticipating what these triggers are going to be will help you to respond or cope with them a lot better and plan around them.

You can also give somebody control. If they love control over situations, this is where they thrive. Hand them an activity that they can control. Let's say that you don't want … you're planning a wedding, and your mom is very controlling. You can give her a task that will fulfill that need and she will really dive into it and enjoy it.

On a more day-to-day basis, you can also give somebody two options that you like. This is a trick that works with controlling people — also works with teenagers, too. You like both options of ... so you could say, "We can go to dinner at 6:00 or 6:30." Now, the person who is in control likes this because they can pick the option, but you have put out two options that you really like and would be perfectly OK with.

John Horton:

Well, that's a great way to ... it feels very diabolical, but I guess it really is a nice way to kind of let a control freak feel like they're making the decision, even though you've kind of already made it for them and you're just letting them pick A or B.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

Yes. And choose your battles. I mean, some things are worth having some dialogue on or conflict over. Let's say that you don't really care what the color of the walls are going to be, but you do care about the couch. We have to pick our battles. Some things we just have to let go, and you have to really think about for yourself, what do you care about and what do you value and what is meaningful to you that may be worth some discussion with a control freak?

John Horton:

I got to say, the whole choosing the battles thing ... I've been married 30 plus years at this point, and that has gotten us through a lot of stuff because you do just have to let some things go and know what's important to the other person and kind of maybe let them have it every once in a while.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

And sometimes, you don't want to ask for an opinion. You have to be careful of asking someone what is their opinion because if you invite them to comment, then they're going to have an opinion about it. So you may sometimes not want to invite the other person to comment on something that is important to you and just, again, handle it yourself and let it go.

John Horton:

Yeah. It sounds like with a lot of this, patience is key to dealing with any of these relationships.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

Patience is key, and particularly because when you're dealing with someone who is more controlling, they really struggle when the plans change. If anything deviates, it can cause a lot of panic, even a lot of anxiety and this fear and dread. So we often don't see on the surface what is happening. People who are controlling, “control freaks,” they look great on the surface. You can't tell that underneath that they are really struggling. So it can be very deceptive or we can really miss how much a little deviation can throw someone off.

John Horton:

And do you find, are there times where if you're working with somebody or living with somebody who really just has to be in control, that you need to reach out and maybe get a little support from elsewhere, kind of have a support system in place so that you can just kind of handle it a little bit better or just feel more confident in kind of letting your opinions be known.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

It can be very helpful to reach out and work with a therapist because we get very stuck in a lot of these patterns. And over time, when control issues are not addressed, it can create a lot of conflict in a relationship. And it can also create … the number one issue it can create is to erode your partner or your child's confidence. I have a lot of teens who go off to college, and I can tell because they grew up in a home where parents were strictly in control, they get to college, and a lot of times, they lose their confidence. They feel like they don't know how to make decisions on their own because someone is always telling them what to do and how to do it and how to do it right. So the risk in a relationship of exerting some control or not letting people stumble or fail or do it in their own way is that it doesn't help them to feel this self-efficacy or to feel a sense of confidence overall.

It can also lead to a lot of emotional exhaustion in the relationship, that you feel like you're always walking on eggshells. And then on the flip side, for the person who is struggling with control, again, there may be deep down some anxiety, some OCD, something else going on. So if somebody's coming to you and over and over again, or you hear from different sources around you that you're a control freak, it might be a little bit of a red flag to pause and think about what's going on really for you and how does control play out in your life.

And then on the flip side, if you are somebody who is in a relationship with someone, or your boss is more controlling and you're really struggling with it, it's impacting your health, for example, you were up late at night worrying about it, you can't turn off your brain and go to sleep or it's impacting your eating, your functioning, these are all good times to reach out to a therapist that can help you unpack, unravel, figure out some coping skills — because the control freaks in our lives, we're not going to eliminate them. We have to learn how to coexist and interact with them and have them be part of our lives.

John Horton:

Now, I'd imagine, as you do come up with some of these coping techniques and try to maybe work with the control freak in your life to kind of get these issues addressed and maybe make your voice heard a little bit more and all that, that there might be a little friction. So what can you kind of do or how should you respond when you start feeling that and the moves you're making just aren't really being accepted?

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

If you're feeling some friction or you're feeling uncomfortable, pay attention to it. This is a message. A lot of times, we will try and talk ourselves out of it or rationalize it or ignore it. This is sending you a message that you need to pay attention to it and need to find ways to cope with it. So first and foremost, address what's going on, give it a name and find some help and support, seek out some therapy, or do some journaling about it can be very helpful, because for the relationship, you're often falling into the same dynamic over and over again.

So if you're taking some notes, journaling about it, you're going to gather some data because these same issues will pop up over and over again about the dishwasher, about making plans, about how to clean, about how to get things done, how to form a schedule. The same things happen over and over again. And if you can have a list of the triggers or the repetitive conflicts that you have, it gives you a lot of data for the future to think about strategically how to respond to it in a very different way.

John Horton:

Should you be prepared for some effects when you start kind of responding back?

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

People will often push back. The control freak in your life is often going to get very upset or surprised if you put a boundary. So it may be a little bit uncomfortable. In the past, it may have been easier to just say, "OK, we'll do it your way." But when you start to put some boundaries down, initially, there may be some surprise you're pushing back. But in the long run, if you can hold those boundaries, it really teaches the other person that your voice is important, what you want is important, and it equals out some of the power dynamics. But again, not easy, not easy, and be prepared that it could be a little bit bumpy and difficult at first.

John Horton:

When should someone consider seeking professional help, either for themselves or maybe even the control freak in your life? What are some of the examples where, hey, you really do need to see somebody to talk about this?

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

If this is causing constant fighting between two people, if it has caused two people to go their own ways, this is what I often see with couples, is that they start living their own lives. "I'm going to do my thing my way, you do your thing your way," and there starts to be a divide. If there is a lot of resentment, if there's anger, it could also be a problem of that controlling behavior can escalate at times to abusive behavior, and that's when it's very concerning. If you feel like that you're isolated or that you have no voice or that it's incredibly suffocating and interfering with some of the things that you want for your life, that's when, in particular, that you must seek some additional help if you feel like it's turned over to being an abusive relationship. And sometimes, maybe it may not be the relationship for you as well. And we're not just talking about relationships, but let's say it's a boss and you feel like that this is a repeated pattern, it may not be the job for you either.

John Horton:

Well, Dr. Albers, I think it's safe to say we have a game plan in place now to deal with any control freaks in our lives or maybe to self-reflect and look at some things that maybe we should think about a little bit.

Before we kind of part ways, what's the number one bit of advice you want folks to take out of this conversation when it comes to addressing this sort of situation?

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

Controlling people seek safety, not dominance. Keep that in your mind. This is going to help you to be more empathetic and look at the situation a lot more objectively. Take a moment right now and ask yourself how control plays out in your life. How does control play out for you? Where do you fit on that spectrum? Are you someone who lacks a lot of control in your life, or you're in the middle who likes structure and planning, or do you feel like you are in the category of hyper-rigid, needing extreme control? Where do you fall on that spectrum and how does that feel to you? Then, also think about the relationships in your life with your boss, your coworkers, your friends, your family members, your parents. How does control play out in each of those relationships? Do a deep dive with yourself about control and think about how it plays out in your life in healthy ways and things that are challenging. Are there ways that you could channel control into a positive? Maybe you want more control over your schedule, your exercise, your eating, things like that, or in your work environment. And what ways does control undermine you? And you'll find that there's two sides of the coin, that control can be helpful, but it can also be harmful and figure out what works for you.

John Horton:

Wow. Well, I got to tell you, Dr. Albers, you have given me a lot to think about today. I feel like I need to schedule a weekly session with you just to go over all of this stuff, but I'm sure we will have you back on for yet another topic sometime soon. And I look forward to our next conversation.

Dr. Susan Albers-Bowling:

Thank you so much. It was a pleasure to be here, and I love talking about psychological issues, so I welcome the opportunity to come back.

John Horton:

Thank you. Control freaks can bring a suffocating feeling to your day-to-day life, but if you follow the tips suggested by Dr. Albers, you may find ways to manage the situation and make your voice heard.

If you liked what you heard today, please hit the subscribe button and leave a comment to share your thoughts. Until next time, be well.

Speaker 3:

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