Sports Essentials | Finding a Mental Edge with Matthew Sacco, PhD

Podcast Transcript

John Horton:

Hey, there, and welcome to Sports Essentials, an extension of our popular Health Essentials Podcast. I'm John Horton, your co-host with Dr. Lauren Wichman.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

Hi, John. Great to be here, and super excited about the conversation that we have planned today.

John Horton:

It really should be a great one. I know we had talked about doing this for a while, this whole if you're going to talk about sports, you're going to talk to athletes, you want to talk to them about how they can be their absolute best.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

When it comes to performance, I mean, I say this a lot to my athletes — if we're really trying to maximize every single piece to be able to put that puzzle together, physical is a big piece, no doubt about it. Training—

John Horton:

You spend all that time lifting weights. Getting bigger, faster, stronger, but you got to work upstairs too.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

Mental is a huge piece of that, too. I think that's where hearing from Dr. Sacco on everything that he works with athletes on, day in, day out, to help maximize that, is going to be really, really interesting.

John Horton:

Yeah. I got to say, Matt Sacco, sports psychologist here was on our “got to get” guest list from the very beginning.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

Not only is he awesome, but this topic is such a relevant and interesting topic to hopefully fill in our listeners on something that they may not have even considered, to be able to help them be their best.

John Horton:

Yeah. I mean, because we're all looking for that one little thing that can kind of put you over the top and make you just a little bit better. And it sounds like it might just be as easy as using your brain to get there.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I'm sure we'll touch on this a little bit, but whether it's on the field, in the classroom, in the office, there's so many different places that we all want to be our best. It'll be really interesting to hear from him on how we can approach all of those situations, where we know mental health and the mental edge is critical.

John Horton:

Absolutely. Let's tell folks how they can get there.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

Let's do it.

John Horton:

Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Sacco. I can't tell you how much we have been looking forward to having you on with us.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Thanks for inviting me. I'm looking forward to it. Anytime we can get a chance to talk about this stuff publicly and raise some awareness and things, it's a good thing.

John Horton:

Oh, definitely. And when we did our pre-podcast chat, I got to tell you, I was blown away by the variety of athletes that you work with on a daily basis. You see everyone from early teens, who need their folks to drive them to practice, to the professional athletes, who are probably rolling in with some fancy sports car, to old dudes like me, who are just trying to keep going. But despite that whole wide range of folks, it seems like everyone wants to know the same thing, and that's the secret to find that mental edge for their best performance.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Yeah, you're right. That seems to be a starting point for many people. When they think of or they hear, especially the term “sports psychology” or “sports psychologist,” and historically, that performance enhancement piece is really what people have attributed to what we do in sports psychology. It's a really common question or statement that people come in with, regardless, whether the parents come in with it or whether it's, like you said, the weekend warrior thing. That is a huge element to what people ask about, for sure.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

I think when it comes to sports in general, we spend so much time practicing and focusing on the physical aspect. I think, hopefully, at this point in time, more and more light is being shed on the potential benefits and how having that mental edge can take you to the next level, too.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Yeah. It's a really neat progression even from my standpoint to see because especially as I mirror and relate to the practice that has been building over the years here in sports myself, one of the earliest conversations that I had with a provider when I was being introduced or introducing myself — and at the time, most of my work was as primarily a health psychologist in general — and the comment was kind of more in the lines of, “It's great to meet you. It's great to have you here. We need a sports psychologist, though.” There's some truth to that in terms of understanding the differences between what different specialties, their expertise is.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

What really changed the conversation was the fact that putting that plate on an office door in sports medicine that said “Sports Psychologist,” the conversation became much, much less stigmatized for many patients. Again, seeing it, but also seeing that sports psychologist piece, the door literally and figuratively kind of opened up, and more people were willing to take that risk or that chance that they thought they may not have otherwise.

John Horton:

That's really neat to hear that sort of evolution and just kind of that healthy step forward that folks are kind of taking when it comes to approaching it that way.

John Horton:

Like Dr. Wichman said, what we really want to talk about today is finding that mental edge because anybody who competes, you want to be your best on certain days. And we've all been at the starting line of a race, or a game's just starting or something like that, you can feel it inside you. I mean, it's tangible. It's what people call butterflies or whatever it is.

John Horton:

So how do you work with people to find that balance between those normal butterflies, which sounds like are normal and human and kind of healthy, and that point where you are just kind of undoing all the good that you have coming into the event?

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Yeah, that's a really, really great way to describe that evolution as well. Some of it is starting with just some education. Education that normalizes that you're going to have some of these physiological experiences. The idea here is not about trying to make those feelings and those experiences go away. It doesn't work. It's much, much more about learning how to function inside of that space.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

No. Not at all.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

We do have to find that pocket. We do have to find that space that you can function in, and that's kind of the foundation of where I start.

John Horton:

You can't just swallow that nervousness, huh?

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Right. You're already experiencing that physiology, and it is not about trying to help someone become fearless or ultra-motivated or just push through this, because that does not work.

John Horton:

Yeah. So how do you find that balance?

Dr. Matt Sacco:

What to do in that moment is really contingent on everything that you're doing from a preparation standpoint before that. You can't expect a skill to be useful for you if you haven't been working on it. Practice gives you that ability.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

A lot of these techniques and skills, that practice will come in handy in more facets than just the athletic sphere.

John Horton:

I got to be honest, I do that sort of stuff before the podcast.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

There's not probably a single more useful skill than you can teach a school-aged kid than the ability to learn how to self-soothe through breathwork.

John Horton:

It sounds so cliché, but yet, it sounds like when you are in those situations, that is exactly what you should do.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

As our breath goes, the rest of our physiology will follow. When we shift to deeper diaphragmatic breathing, heart rate and blood pressure start to slow down.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

The concept of fight-or-flight is totally spot on.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

It's normal. It's something that we can improve on, we can work on, we can get better at.

John Horton:

When we were talking about tips and things like that, you brought up some fascinating tactile approaches.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

The tactile components are so important. It has to be intentional and paired with practice.

John Horton:

It's an emotional support knot.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

That knot keeps you zoomed in.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Routine and repetition are a very important part of maintaining focus.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

That lucky hair scrunchy came with me to exams.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

That's awesome.

John Horton:

Visualization techniques have power, but limitations.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

They're tools. The more tools you have, the better.

John Horton:

You need flexibility.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Psychological flexibility is key.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

How possible is it to learn adaptability?

Dr. Matt Sacco:

It's very possible.

John Horton:

Where are people now with acceptance of mental health in sports?

Dr. Matt Sacco:

I wish we were further along, but it's improving.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

I try to frame referrals as performance enhancement.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

This team-based approach is exponentially more powerful.

John Horton:

What are some concrete takeaways?

Dr. Matt Sacco:

The brain controls all of it. Training it matters.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

Any quick tips for parents?

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Be patient. Let kids be kids. Start with breathing.

John Horton:

Final thoughts?

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Go to the experts. Commit to the work.

John Horton:

Thanks again, Dr. Sacco.

Dr. Lauren Wichman:

Thank you so much.

Dr. Matt Sacco:

Absolutely. Anytime.

John Horton:

If you liked what you heard today, please hit the subscribe button and leave a comment. Until next time, play hard and be well.

Speaker 4:

Thank you for listening to Health Essentials, brought to you by Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland Clinic Children's. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace the advice of your own physician.