Can You Eat Too Much Protein?

John Horton:

Hey there, and welcome to another episode of Nutrition Essentials, an offshoot of our popular Health Essentials Podcast. I'm John Horton, your co-host, with registered dietitian Julia Zumpano.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Hey John, I'm excited about today's topic. It's very popular, protein maxing.

John Horton:

Julia, I got to say, you go to the store, and the trend is just so obvious. It seems like everything you see on the shelf, it's got some sort of little logo on it. It's like “20 grams of protein” or 25 or whatever. It's just protein, protein, protein in everything. And it starts to make you wonder, do we really need all of that?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Great question. And it is case by case, but in general, we do need a good amount of protein. Most Americans are not consuming good quality protein or enough spaced out properly throughout their day. So I do think we need that protein, but it is worth a discussion, digging deeper and understanding your personal needs.

John Horton:

Yeah. Well, it sounds like one of those things, protein is good, but as we know, you can have too much of a good thing.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Absolutely. You can definitely have too much protein, and there's side effects to that, so we'll break that down.

John Horton:

So is protein maxing a nutritionally strong idea, or are we all just caught up in this latest health and fitness trend? We're going to talk it through with Julia next.

All right, so we're here to talk about protein, and we all know that it is a key part of any healthy diet, but there's kind of a question as to how much protein we need. Julia, when people come in and they start talking about things like that, what do you recommend that they try to hit?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Sure. I calculate protein needs for every single one of my patients. I think it's very important to know and understand. It's good for me to know what their protein needs are, and based on their diet history, what they're actually getting in because that helps me provide very specific personalized recommendations. So in general, though, the federal guidelines have increased the protein to almost double. So generally, the guidelines were 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram body weight. That was what it was historically. Recently, those guidelines have increased to 1.2 to the upper limit, 1.6 grams of protein per kilogram, which is again, double the basic guidelines that were initially instilled for years.

John Horton:

That seems like something that calls for a lot of mathing, Julia.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

It does. It does. It's very math-focused. That's actually what I love about nutrition. Love the math piece. But just out of just understanding my position on it, I've always historically kept people at a higher level. I feel like people do better on a little more protein. So I generally have calculated needs at about 1.0 to 1.2 grams. Even with the old guidelines, I just felt, again, seeing a lot of patients with diabetes or metabolic syndrome, that a higher protein diet fared better for them from a health outcome standpoint. So not much has changed in my world, although I think I'm a little bit more generous with protein and tend to go to the upper limit more frequently than before with my recommendations.

John Horton:

So in looking at that formula, I kind of did some math ahead of time. So if you weigh 150 pounds, it looks like the current recommendations are that you should try to take in 82 to about 108 grams of protein per day. But as we know, everyone's needs kind of vary as far as where you fall in that. What kind of dictates how much protein we should look to get in and whether we should be higher or lower on that scale?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Great question. So your age, as you age, your muscle mass declines, so you'll need more protein as you age. Your activity level and the type of activity you're doing plays a big role. Your kidney health, how well your kidneys are functioning are going to play a big role. And then overall, we also look at dietary preferences. Now, that doesn't help me calculate per se, but it may steer me to one direction or the other. So if someone's following a plant-based diet, I do tend to at least give them a bare minimum that they need to meet. So I will adjust and try to encourage different ways to get in those needs, but those are the main factors that play a role.

John Horton:

Yeah. Now, when we talk about the importance of protein, I think we all know it's good for us, but what are some of the key things that it does for our bodies, just to keep everything working the way we want?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Sure. So protein builds muscle mass. It is also responsible for building tissues and organs. So a big part of our bodies rely on protein for functioning. It is a source of energy. So protein provides about 4 calories per gram, so about what carbohydrates provide. So it is a source of energy. So we do burn protein as energy, and it also provides us essential amino acids, which are important, have many great important processes in the body, provides us with vitamins and minerals like zinc and iron and B vitamins. So protein plays a lot of roles in our body.

John Horton:

Yeah. Now I know, Julia, that you talk food and diet with people all day. Have you found that there have been more questions about protein, and people want to know whether they need to get in more?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Absolutely, yes. I would say also with the GLP-1 medications being more frequently offered, the protein needs are essential on those medications. So I am definitely speaking more towards protein than ever before.

John Horton:

How does it fit in with the GLP-1s? Because I know that so many people are kind of going on that now. Is it just, you need protein just to make sure you're getting enough nutritionally as you're cutting back on food intake?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Well, that, but more importantly, when you're rapidly losing weight, your body loses fat, but it also loses a good portion of muscle. So we're seeing that people are having large amounts of muscle loss with rapid weight loss, which can lead to sarcopenia, and that can be overall just very unhealthy for someone. So you lose muscle mass, then you can also increase your risk of injury. Your immune system can be depressed. There's a lot of negative health outcomes with muscle loss. So we're really trying to maintain that muscle and those tissues to be supported through a high-protein diet while you're losing weight rapidly, hoping to lose more fat than muscle.

John Horton:

OK. Well, a “high-protein diet” is the buzzword now. I mean, it seems like that's what everybody's talking about. But is there a point where you kind of go a little too high on the high-protein diet and you're just taking in way more than your body needs?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Absolutely. Yes. There's definitely risk factors to too much protein. I mean, first of all, you put a lot of pressure on your kidneys. It's very taxing to your kidneys, so your kidneys have to filter and manage all that protein. So we really want to give yourself the right amount, but not too much. And you can also have other side effects and issues from a high protein diet.

John Horton:

Well, you'd mentioned kidneys, and I just want to tell everybody, if you're curious about that a little bit more, look on our Health Essentials Podcast, and we did a whole episode on that with Dr. Calle, looking at what protein may do for your kidneys.

So as far as some of these other things that can happen, Julia, what are some of the things you might see?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

So bad breath is one that most people want to avoid. It's also called keto breath.

John Horton:

Bad breath is the last thing I would think.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Yes. It's also called keto breath. It's very evident. It's almost like a soury breath and people can taste it. They don't particularly love the way that feels. You can get dehydrated from the overworked kidneys, you can have digestive issues. So oftentimes, a high-protein diet can lead to constipation or constipation, slow moving bowels, foamy urine, wonderful side effects.

John Horton:

Yeah, these are some bizarre things.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Yeah. You can gain weight if you're having too much protein. I mean, it really can be ... or lack of weight loss if you're taking in too many calories from protein.

John Horton:

And I know that there is such a focus on getting more protein in. And my two sons are big protein guys, and they put down a lot. And I always try to tell them, "Hey, you can dial this down a little bit." And there's a reality that your body can only handle so much protein at once, too, correct?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Right. Yes. So the number is, again, very fluid. So we have research studies that show a certain amount and some that show another amount. Again, it depends on your size, how well you digest and absorb. But for the most part, we can absorb about 30 to 40 grams of protein at one time. Past that, you are not going to necessarily utilize the protein, that you won't even be able to absorb and digest and utilize the protein to its efficiency, after that.

It's kind of a cup analogy. The cup can overflow, and it's overflowing, and it's just too much. So you want to keep enough protein that your body can absorb, digest, assimilate and use, and then next meal, then you have that opportunity to do it again. So I find that very common with just standard American diets is that we're consuming large amount of protein at one meal, but then maybe the other two meals are lacking protein. So I think that's where another issue lies.

John Horton:

Yeah. And when you talk about that cup being overflowing, the reality is then, when that does happen, basically you just start peeing out all this protein that you just took in. So if you load it up on protein powders, there's a big protein shake and paired it with a high-protein meal, the reality is you're getting rid of a lot of that protein you just took in.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Right. And it can be taxing to your system as well. So think about your body has to utilize it, move it and get rid of it. So you're taxing your kidneys while you're at it and your whole system. So you really want to space protein out throughout the day.

John Horton:

Yeah. And I also feel like everyone's kind of caught up in this protein craze, but the reality is a lot of people don't necessarily need it. I mean, if you're lifting, if you're working out a lot, yeah, maybe a little extra protein is going to be good for you because you're in this muscle-building phase. But I think there's a lot of people who, I guess, are not muscle-building at the moment, and they're just taking it in as part of this kind of trend.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Right. Yeah. So understanding your needs is really the first step. So being able to calculate how much protein you need, being able to compare that to what you're currently getting. If you're meeting your needs, there's no need to change anything. If you're exceeding your needs, maybe you scale back a little bit, or if you're not getting enough, obviously, you come up with means to meet your goals. But I think the really key here is understanding what your needs are.

John Horton:

Yeah. What do you recommend if somebody is starting maybe a pretty aggressive workout program or something like that, or they have some serious goals in mind, how do you come up with that number or that target when you're putting together your meal plan?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Great question. So I do start with, obviously, assessing their activity level, what type of activity they're doing. I will also look at their age, of course, their current diet trends, and then I give them a number. Normally, I will say, as most of my patients are between 1.2 and 1.4 grams of protein per kilogram. If you are exercising more intensely, lifting, training for an event, I might give a little closer to 1.6 grams of protein per kilogram. Again, those are more higher-performance athletes, are training for something specific. But generally, we're kind of in that middle range, and I do encourage giving ... I give a gram dosage amount and then I try to break it up by meal as well because I think that's very helpful.

John Horton:

Yeah. Do you ever see times where people just totally go overboard and they're putting down maybe 200 grams plus of protein per day? And I mean, are there times where that's warranted or is that something where if you are that high, you probably need to walk that back a bit?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

So I'd say in the general population, I'm not seeing that. If I'm seeing athletes or bodybuilders or someone more on the athletic side, I will see that excessive amount of protein and I may just slightly restructure it, give them a better meal balance, and most of the time they feel a lot better from a performance and a digestive perspective. But for the general public, I feel like most people are meeting their needs most days, but I do still have a handful of people who are not meeting their protein needs or just not consuming the protein properly distributed throughout the day.

John Horton:

Well, and it also sounds like the type of protein you eat matters. So what do we need to look for in that regard?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Right. So when you look at the highest protein foods, we're looking at meats. Meats are going to be highest in protein. So lean red meats, poultry, skinless poultry are great sources of protein. Fish is another phenomenal source of protein. So they all provide about the same. An ounce of flesh meat is about seven grams of protein. Now, red meat gives a little more chicken and fish slightly less, but just very marginally less.

And then, we have other non-flesh sources of protein, so that might look like dairy, Greek yogurt or cottage cheese and cheese, milk has protein, and then eggs, and then plant-based sources of protein. So those are things like legumes, beans, and lentils, nuts and seeds, and then things like tofu or tempeh, which are meat alternatives.

John Horton:

So those are all the strong protein choices that bring a little bit more of that nutritional punch that you want. But I get the sense a lot of people maybe get some garbage protein in or are getting it from places where it's not as good. What are some of those less ideal protein sources?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

So looking at fatty sources of protein, so things like processed meats like hot dogs and fast food hamburgers and bacon and sausage and deli meats. So those are going to be more of the higher-fat processed meat sources of protein. And really those meat sources of protein have a higher percentage of fat versus protein. We know there's negative health outcomes of eating a diet high in animal fat.

So those are the less desirable. And then, some of those supplemental protein products, so some are better than others, you just have to educate yourself, but a lot of these protein pancakes and protein waffles and protein bars and proteins being added to everything, everything. So cereal, protein cereal. So these are where you want to be a little more wary, and we really want to eat whole food sources of protein versus supplemental protein.

John Horton:

Yeah. I've seen protein potato chips at the store and you kind of go, "This just does not seem like the spot where you need to load up on protein."

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Right, right. Now, I say that with a caveat because there are some protein pastas out there, and what they do is blend in some chickpea flour and some lentil flour, and I think that's great. It increases the fiber, it increases the protein. People are getting some benefits of some legumes or beans in their diet. That would be one good option. Or getting in a protein shake that maybe you make, like a protein powder where you can utilize it at home and making it with some fresh vegetables or fruit and blending it all together, I'm all for that as well.

So again, it's case by case. Some of these supplemental products, too, I think can serve well for maybe some of the older individuals who struggle to get their protein needs in and are very routine-based and they just want to have a bowl of cereal for breakfast and maybe just having very limited palatability to expanding into more whole food-based proteins. So I do think there's also a place for some of those, especially for maybe those who are more picky or less inclined to increase their protein through real food sources.

John Horton:

Yeah. I'm glad you kind of mentioned protein powder because I do feel like that is a very big thing that's out there. And I want to know, do you need to be careful with what powder you choose? I mean, you read that there's some kind of low-quality ones and you wonder just how do you pick the right protein powder that's going to give you the benefits that you want without maybe some of the other stuff that could be detrimental?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Yeah. I mean, the sky's the limit when it comes to protein powders. If you really look, start searching, there are so many options. There's whey and pea and plant and egg and brown rice and so many different varieties. So first of all, the most absorbable form of protein in a protein powder is whey. Whey tends to be the highest quality, meaning you absorb and digest the most amount of protein from the whey.

There are now beef protein powders. Those are also another good option. Plant protein powders, you don't absorb as much of the protein, so just keep that in mind. But the other piece is that whey protein powder can cause more digestive issues with most people. Again, so if you're having digestive issues and you're using a whey, maybe the why, what's stimulating it, is to why most people are going to a plant-based powder to lessen those digestive issues.

So those are two big categories, but then there's food allergies that can obviously influence the type of powder someone's choosing, what's available to them, but they are not completely a hundred percent nutritious. So oftentimes, they can have unhealthy added oils like hydrogenated oils or palm oil. They can have added sugars or a large amount of artificial sweeteners. They can have artificial color. They also can be exposed to heavy metals. So a lot of powders could be high in cadmium or lead.

So it's just very important to be aware of the type of powder you're getting. And I always recommend choosing a protein powder that has been third-party tested because then they have tested to make sure that they're claiming what's in there is actually in there and that the quantities are appropriate. And oftentimes they will check for contaminants.

John Horton:

Yeah. Do you find that most people maybe could benefit from a protein powder or is it something where it's more if you have high protein needs and you might need to get a little more in, like if you are an athlete or something like that?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

I'd say that it depends. So full disclosure, I use a protein powder most days. I love to make a protein shake. I have varied the types of powders I use, but I feel like I know that I'm getting that solid 30 grams of protein for lunch. I struggle to get that in or have time to make something that is that much protein. So I do often use it. I do blend it in a shake with a lot of different vegetables, maybe a little bit of fruit.

So I use it as a means to get other things in like ground flax seeds and chia seeds and beets and things that I normally wouldn't consume on a daily basis. So I like to use it that way to make sure I'm meeting my protein needs, to get in all those other nutrients that I might struggle with getting in through the rest of my day.

But I do think that most people can get their protein needs in through real food. I use protein shakes for those that are struggling to eat. When we're looking at GLP-1s, appetite is depleted, so you're not very hungry, you might feel nauseous and sick, and most of the time protein is not the first thing that you think about eating when you're not feeling good. Most people, if they have an upset stomach, they want crackers, right? They want toast.

And that's also another big problem that we're finding with patients on these GLP-1s is that they're not gravitating towards protein, and that's where some supplemental protein can really help play a role to get their protein needs.

John Horton:

It sounds like you need to be pretty tactical with how you're using it, not just, "Hey, I'm going to do this glass, mix it up and just get the extra protein in," but kind of do it as part of a plan with your overall diet and to make sure you're kind of hitting the numbers that you want to.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Absolutely. I think everything can fit. We just have to figure out how it fits into a specific plan and how to meet your needs. So I think there's room for all types of protein to be included.

John Horton:

And it sounds like you should really try to spread that protein out throughout the day. So make sure you get a good serving of it at breakfast, lunch, dinner, maybe a snack. Is there kind of a target number you put on each meal to hit?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Yes, absolutely. So let's just say on average, most people need between 90 and 120 grams of protein a day. That hits most people, right? So anywhere between 30 to 40 grams of protein a meal, but generally aiming 30 to 40 and then about 10 grams of protein per snack is what you're looking for.

John Horton:

All right. Depends how much you snack, I guess. We should try to limit those, right?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Well, I mean, if you're thinking of protein-based snacks, there should be whole foods like a boiled egg, a cheese stick, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, a handful of nuts. So it helps gear you towards making better snack choices because you're aiming for 10 grams of protein, which, I mean, unless you're buying protein chips, you're not going to necessarily get them from chips.

John Horton:

Yeah. Well, and it sounds like if you do eat more protein, and we talk about this all the time, it seems like it comes up, protein is very filling. It can help keep you feeling ... you not going to be snacking as much if you have that in between meals because it's sitting in your belly and slowly working through your system, and it can help in so many ways with that.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Right. And it also manages blood sugar. So protein, when paired with a carbohydrate, helps control blood sugar. So that combination is really key, and not only for someone who may be diabetic, but someone who might have cravings or uncontrolled blood sugars throughout the day, spikes and drops in their blood sugar. So managing that blood sugar helps manage your appetite, but it also helps manage your energy levels. So that's really important, too, is being able to have an even balance throughout the day of those energy levels versus spikes and drops.

John Horton:

Yeah. This is where I love what we talk about on here all the time is kind of the science that goes into the food we eat and what it does for our bodies. And you realize protein really plays a critical role in so much of how our body works efficiently.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Absolutely. And I will say also, I think it's essential to make sure you vary the kind of protein you consume. I think it's so important to understand not only consuming animal protein, I think it's very important to include plant protein regularly in your diet. Plant protein aids in digestion, regularity, and it offers a whole other slew of powerful vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants.

John Horton:

Yeah. Well, you always talk about having a varied diet. So instead of just going, "Hey, I need red meat for my protein," work in the beans and legumes and the lentils and the nuts and seeds, all that sort of stuff can round out your diet a little bit, add a little variety, and just shift things up a little.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Absolutely.

John Horton:

All right. So Julia, if somebody is really thinking like, "Hey, I need to get more protein in. I need to buy those," I don't know, whatever high-protein thing they see on the shelf, what would be your advice to them as far as they start this, whether they need to and where they need to put their limits?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

So my number-one advice would be to calculate your protein needs. We know how to calculate it, use your weight. I will say one thing that we noted is that we gave the guidelines based on kilograms. So if you're looking just for easy math to do it through pounds, it's 0.5 to 0.7 grams per pound. So that is how it equates. So that's a way easier way for most people to do. So if you think about your weight is about half your weight is your minimum amount of protein that you need, and about 70% of your weight is what you need as an average. And then if you're looking for higher, about 0.9, 90% would be, again, that really upper range of-

John Horton:

…that's really easy. So basically just take your weight, cut it in half, and that's roughly about the number of grams of protein you should be looking to take in during a day.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Yep. Half to 70% of your weight is what you need.

John Horton:

That seems pretty easy. That's the easiest math so far.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Yes. So knowing the number is key. And then, I'd say, just take a normal day and sit and calculate the protein that you're taking in. Just get an average of what you think you're doing and see if you're meeting that need. And then most likely you are, and if you are, just go about your day. If you feel like you're fairly low, then think about how low you are and try to make up those extra 20 grams or whatever you might be lacking in your day. I recommend a plan. So where are we lacking the protein on our day and what would be a good source to provide that extra 15, 20, 30 grams, whatever you might be lacking?

John Horton:

Yeah. And that's where you want to look for those healthy kinds of nutritious protein sources that you talked about, like the lean meats, the chicken, the eggs, fish, nuts, seed, things like that.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Most people are not getting enough protein at breakfast and lunch. I will say that's where most people should focus. Breakfast more than anything. I utilize a lot of dairy protein at breakfast, so Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, those are, I think, one of the best. An egg white omelet. Those are great ways to get in protein at breakfast.

John Horton:

Yeah. Is there a big benefit to getting that little protein boost right at the start of the day?

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Absolutely. Can help energy levels, stabilize blood sugars, really help that appetite throughout the day. If you start off with a high-sugar, high-carb breakfast, that's what you're going to crave all day.

John Horton:

Yeah. Well, Julia, I think you've given us a great roadmap if we want to look at the protein in our diet and where our targets should be. And it sounds like the best way to do that is just to eat those healthy foods that you've been talking about.

Julia Zumpano, RD:

Absolutely.

John Horton:

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