Does the ‘California Sober’ Approach Work? with Jared Harp, DO

Podcast Transcript

John Horton:

Hey there, and welcome to another Health Essentials Podcast. I'm John Horton, your host.

Alcohol consumption continues to drop as more people view it as a negative for their overall health. In many instances, though, they're trading that vice for another: marijuana. This so‑called “California Sober” approach has gained in popularity as cannabis has become more legalized and even viewed as a wellness product. But is trading one mind‑altering substance for another really a step forward?

We're going to explore that today with addiction psychiatrist Jared Harp. Dr. Harp is one of the many experts at Cleveland Clinic who visit us weekly to break down health trends. So with that, let's see if there's an actual benefit to going Cali Sober — or if those talking it up are just blowing smoke.

John Horton:

Welcome back to the podcast, Dr. Harp. Thanks for stopping by to talk shop.

Dr. Jared Harp:

Thank you so much for having me back. I really appreciate it. Happy to chat about this and looking forward to our conversation.

John Horton:

Well, I am, too. And I have to tell you, it's not often that researching a topic involves queuing up tunes, but in looking into California Sober, it definitely called for a playlist. You’ve got to love that there's a Billy Strings and Willie Nelson collaboration you can use while studying up on this.

Dr. Jared Harp:

…it doesn’t do much better than that. I’ve got to agree with you there.

John Horton:

Right. It definitely made getting ready for this a little more entertaining, but it also shows how pop culture has helped push this concept into the public consciousness.

Dr. Jared Harp:

That’s very true. This concept has had a niche home in recovery communities — predominantly out West — but as artists like Billy Strings and Willie Nelson introduced it into pop culture, it really spread. It’s a term I hear quite often in my work.

John Horton:

So aside from being an inspiration for a song, what exactly is California Sober?

Dr. Jared Harp:

Essentially, it’s an alternative to the traditional sobriety model. Instead of avoiding all substances, it’s a selective sobriety model — typically no alcohol or hard drugs like opioids, cocaine, or amphetamines, but continued use of cannabis.

John Horton:

So you’re picking the substance you think might not be as bad as the others.

Dr. Jared Harp:

That really gets to the crux of it. At its core, it’s a harm‑reduction approach. Cannabis can feel like a less risky option compared to substances with more immediate and devastating consequences.

John Horton:

Why do people choose this instead of full sobriety?

Dr. Jared Harp:

There are several reasons. Harm reduction is a big one. Many people feel they can function and be productive while using cannabis, whereas other substances made that impossible. For someone in their 20s or 30s, hearing “you can never use substances again” can feel overwhelming.

John Horton:

It’s a pretty sudden stop.

Dr. Jared Harp:

Exactly. Slowing down is easier than hitting a wall.

John Horton:

Can you clarify what “harm reduction” really means?

Dr. Jared Harp:

At its heart, it’s about making things safer even if they’re not perfect. It includes strategies like fentanyl test strips or needle exchange programs. The idea is acknowledging that stopping everything immediately isn’t always realistic, so we reduce risk where we can.

John Horton:

Kind of a lesser‑of‑two‑evils approach.

Dr. Jared Harp:

That’s right — perfection can be the enemy of good.

John Horton:

Are there benefits to going California Sober?

Dr. Jared Harp:

The main benefit is stepping away from a more dangerous substance. It also gives people more control and agency in their recovery, rather than feeling boxed in by “never.”

John Horton:

Nobody likes hearing the word “never.”

Dr. Jared Harp:

Exactly. “No” is bad enough — “never” is even harder.

John Horton:

Is California Sober used for specific substances?

Dr. Jared Harp:

It can be for anything — opioids, stimulants, alcohol. Alcohol alone causes enormous health consequences nationwide.

John Horton:

But moderation seems tricky.

Dr. Jared Harp:

It is. “Moderate” means different things to different people. Often, substance struggles involve loss of control — the opposite of moderation.

John Horton:

Is there research backing this approach?

Dr. Jared Harp:

Not strongly. Most research suggests it’s not very beneficial long‑term and may even increase risk for some people.

John Horton:

Sounds like trading one slippery slope for another.

Dr. Jared Harp:

That’s a fair assessment. Switching from one addictive substance to another carries real risk.

John Horton:

So what should someone consider before trying this?

Dr. Jared Harp:

Honest self‑assessment. Look at your history with substances — loss of control, cravings, consequences, compulsive use. Those are signs this approach may not work for you.

John Horton:

Bottom line — would you recommend California Sober?

Dr. Jared Harp:

It depends on the individual, but I’d approach it very cautiously. For people with more severe substance struggles, it’s more likely to cause harm than help.

John Horton:

That’s solid advice. If you think you have a problem, it may be better to seek help rather than swap substances.

Dr. Jared Harp:

Very well said.

John Horton:

Thanks again for joining us, Dr. Harp. We’ll definitely have you back.

Dr. Jared Harp:

Always happy to be here. Thanks for the great conversation.

John Horton:

Substance use is complicated, and substituting one vice for another can be tricky. If you're concerned about alcohol or drug use, talk with someone about healthier options as you work toward sobriety.

If you liked what you heard today, please subscribe or leave a comment. Until next time, be well.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for listening to Health Essentials, brought to you by Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland Clinic Children’s. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or visit clevelandclinic.org/hepodcast. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace the advice of your physician.