Where Did It All Start For You?

Podcast Transcript

Announcer:

Welcome to Cleveland Clinic Cardiac Consult brought to you by the Sydell and Arnold Miller Family Heart, Vascular and Thoracic Institute at Cleveland Clinic.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

Welcome to our viewers and listeners. My name is Lee Kirksey. I'm the Vice Chair of Vascular Surgery here at the Heart, Vascular and Thoracic Institute of the Cleveland Clinic. Here this morning, I have with me D’Andre Williams. I’ll have her introduce herself.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Hi, my name is D’Andre Williams and I’m a second-year vascular surgery resident here at the Cleveland Clinic.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

So I thought this was an opportunity to discuss with Dr. Williams, perhaps her pathway into vascular surgery and into medicine. We'll kick it off by asking you what attracted you to medicine? You're a smart person, you could have done anything you wanted in life.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

A little bit of background is my family is Caribbean. Being from a third-world country, there is a really big emphasis on education. I feel like, throughout my life, I knew that I really wanted to do something in the medical field, because I felt like I had a deep passion for math and science. I know that sounds crazy. But essentially when I went to college, I felt very lost and a little undecided in what I wanted to do in medicine specifically. But being from Tampa, Florida, we have the Moffitt Cancer Center, which was where I got the opportunity to be introduced to medicine from several different perspectives. And I really loved taking care of the patients that I got to interact with on a daily basis and knew from after volunteering at the cancer center for several years, that I wanted to pursue going to medical school at least, at that time.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

That's great. That's fantastic here at the Heart and Vascular Institute, we're doing a lot of work in pipeline development, and we talk about the deep pipeline in that late pipeline. And you're speaking to this issue of the deep pipeline. How do we get people, a diverse group of people from various communities interested, and it starts with STEM education and the fact that you were interested in math and science, how'd that happen for you?

D’Andre Williams, MD:

I found that in high school, I did naturally excel in the math and sciences. English and language arts were not my strong suit by any means. Actually, in high school, I did a lot of tutoring on the side in calculus and algebra at the local community college that was near my house. And that I would say probably started off for me. As a 16 and 17-year-old, I was looking for a job and some extra cash on the side. And I knew that I was good at math. I decided to enroll in tutoring.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

But again, you don't actually notice the impact that you have on people. I was going into work every day thinking I'm just trying to make a buck. But I actually am still in contact with a lot of the people that I did tutor and essentially mentor through their community college experience, even though I was in high school. I was able to form a lot of deep relationships in that job. And that I guess then led me to my track in college and then subsequently medical school.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

That's such an important point to recognize for young people that no matter what stage you're at, you can lend a hand and mentor someone. Sometimes we think we're too early in our careers to do that, but you are a role model. You started out, you were able to motivate some other people to be interested in the STEM areas of education. That's very powerful. Then obviously you get into undergraduate school, you're a science and math person. What made you decide on medicine? Because there are alternatives, there are options for a science and math expert.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

The institution I was attending at the time, when we were in college where we get boxed into certain degrees and routes that you have to take. I knew that I was interested in medicine and for me to be able to actually pursue different opportunities or different routes to eventually get there, I was really limited by a biology degree or a chemistry degree and things of that sort. So being in, my degree was biomedical sciences, there was this pre-paved path that you had in front of you that also came with different opportunities that you knew about because other people ahead of you had already experienced those things. After being in college and asking around and finding out what I needed to do to get where I wanted to be, that led me to, "Oh, you should volunteer at Moffitt."

Lee Kirksey, MD:

Got it.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

"Or maybe you should volunteer at the VA down the street." This is how you're going to get the medical experience in this city.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

Yeah. In a word, you built a network.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Yeah.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

And that's a reoccurring theme for people who are successful.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Yeah.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

Especially if you don't have firsthand knowledge.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Right.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

If you're a first-generation physician, it's important that one seeks out those folks that can provide that input and we're better to look than the people that are a year or two ahead of you.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Exactly.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

That's really powerful. Where did you go to medical school? Tell us a little bit about that.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Yeah. I went to the Florida State University in Tallahassee, Florida, which it's funny because it's actually a primary care-centered institution. They really want to make, they really want to recruit doctors that are going to eventually go into primary care fields and subsequently give back to the communities that they came from, whether it be like inner-city neighborhoods or rural communities, really people that need doctors and may not have the resources to get to a doctor. Attending that institution really shaped my path because they teach you patient-centered care. They really teach you how to be a good physician, no matter what field you go into. And I think the training that I got there was so impactful because it just helps you look at things from perspectives that you may not be traditionally taught, i.e., this patient can't make it to your clinic on time or they keep canceling. And a lot of people will be frustrated by that but they teach you, what are the barriers that are preventing this patient from coming here? And how can you help change that for them so that they can come get the care that they need?

Lee Kirksey, MD:

Absolutely.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

That was very profound.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

Absolutely. And certainly, when you think about our current specialty of vascular surgery that you and I share, the social determinants, which is what we're speaking of globally, are very impactful on the outcomes that patients experience. And many of those social determinants are far outside of the healthcare delivery. They're just normal community-based issues of travel and time and transportation, education. That's really important. I would venture to say that a program that like they have at the University of Florida is probably helpful, we recognize, for any specialist at this point. Whether you're a radiation oncologist or an interventional radiologist or a cardiologist or vascular surgeon. That is fantastic. Then how did you decide on vascular surgery? Obviously, sometimes there are people that get down the space of surgery and then vascular surgery, or they're interested in cardiology and vascular surgery. What's your story?

D’Andre Williams, MD:

I knew that I wanted to be some sort of proceduralist so someone that uses their hands a lot, and I was trying to explore what I could actually do because in medical school, I did not go there with any defined, "Oh, I'm going to be this type of doctor." I don't have doctors in my family, I didn't have any exposure to it beforehand. I really didn't even know what, how many fields there were out there.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

In medical school, I actually took an elective in anesthesia because it was something I didn't know much about. I just wanted to see what they did because I knew that they did procedures. And that was where I had the opportunity to see a carotid endarterectomy. And it was mind-blowing because as a student who's never even heard of an intervention like that. And it's such a beautiful procedure. I was like, "I got to see more of this. I got to find out what these people do because this is really cool." And so it made a really big impression on me. And from then I took an elective in vascular surgery at my institution and was able to see the wide breadth of things that we did and how we were able to help people.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Because a lot of the interventions that we perform provide a lot of relief for patients like almost immediately. And again, as a medical student, that was profound to me. Once I did that rotation, I was sold. And I ended up applying immediately to away rotations because I really wanted to see what other institutions were doing. I knew that my experience was limited at my institution because our vascular surgery was this big private practice group down there. And we didn't have any residents. So as the medical student, you were really the first assist helping with the attending. You got to get a lot of hands-on experience. And I really wanted to see what else was out there in those terms, because I knew the private practice scope was only this much of what we really do.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

What seems to be a resonating theme and all of what you've done and accomplished is that you did a lot of work. You tried to figure out the process, not just, I like this specialty, but figure out how the process, and you went out there, you took the initiative to gain a lot of this experience that you have. And so this vascular residency I'll brag about it, I think our vascular residency is top notch and Frank Caputo runs a great program. And I think we have a substrate here at Cleveland Clinic that's fantastic for people to train in terms of that breadth of surgery. It's not just carotids or leg bypasses or thoracoabdominal aneurysms. We run the gamut of procedures here. What were you looking for in a program?

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Yeah. After doing a couple of away rotations, I quickly realized as the medical student that I was really looking for an institution that had a large volume of cases, not only complex but simple as well because you really need to see bread and butter cases. If you're going to be out in the community, practicing because not every institution is going to be a large academic institution like this place with very complex cases. I knew that coming to Cleveland Clinic, you would have the opportunity to see all of the big open aortic operations here at main campus. And then more of the bread and butter, elective cases at some of our regional hospitals. I heard on the interview trail, a lot of the things that this program had to offer and I was immediately very interested in coming and seeing, checking it out.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

Personally, I think that's so fascinating that as young people, because I look back to my experience, that you guys are a student of, because really you have to project yourself 10 years into the future to understand that I need to be a broad-based vascular surgeon. That's just necessary for competency. Plus, as you alluded to, when you finish, you are able to practice in any area of the United States, no matter what type of procedure is done. You're very well qualified, you're comfortable and you can hit the ground running. And I don't know if that can be said of all programs. I'm certainly biased when I say that. The next step is you're in Cleveland and here's the challenge, I interview medical students who are at our Lerner School of Medicine and we interview you guys as trainees. I grew up in Ohio. I kind of know what Ohio has to offer, but I think there're some perceptions about Ohio that exist, in Cleveland specifically. How is Cleveland?

D’Andre Williams, MD:

I personally have really enjoyed Cleveland. Cleveland is kind of the butt of every joke, when you don't live in Cleveland. I had heard a lot about it already, but when I got here, I was actually blown away at all of the things Cleveland has to offer, whether it be all of the NBA, NFL, MLB teams and the vast variety of restaurants we have here downtown, Ohio City. I have actually had a lot of joy in living downtown because you can just walk outside and grab something to eat and it's phenomenal here. I actually really love Cleveland.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

That's fantastic to hear from someone who's grown up, in the warm climate of Florida, young people clearly want the metropolitan amenities. And I think the interesting thing is that if you look at our training program, we have people that are married with children. We have young people that are single and probably have a different lifestyle, but there seems to be something for that appeals to everyone. Whether it's outdoor hiking or whether it's going downtown and living in what is a relatively pedestrian-friendly city. And I think that's great for our program, but I think we need to let people know a little bit more and that's been hard within the pandemic I have to say. How is your residency going? What year are you now?

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Second-year now.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

You’re second year now.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

It's actually been phenomenal. Second year's a lot better than intern year. But the autonomy that I have been offered this year and really the cases that I have had the opportunity to scrub have been phenomenal, not too long ago, I was able to scrub a case with one of our new faculty, Dr. Park, over at one of our regional hospitals. And it was just amazing, we did an open aortic case and he really let me get my hands on a lot of it to my surprise, being a second year and speaking to a lot of the people I interviewed with, they may be scrubbing some open aortic cases, but they're not getting to do anything during those cases. Actually getting to be a team member and having the opportunity to operate has just been amazing. It's better than I could even ask for.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

Then obviously the other parts, you're understanding this system process. And I think what's unique about our program is this idea that on main campus that's 1500 bed hospital. You have one system and then you go to one of our community hospitals, which may vary in size from 150 beds to 500 or 600 beds, which is really a pretty large sizeable hospital. You get different systems experiences, which I think also prepares you to go out into the real world. Where frankly, no hospital is the same as the next.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Yeah. So it has been a phenomenal experience. Really the autonomy we get here I think is like no other, just because we have the caseload to support it, to support everyone, getting a chance to take care of all these different number of patients and get to scrub the cases we get to scrub. It's been amazing.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

I will say that in talking to you and in understanding that your younger sister is now in medical school, it seems like you've been a mentor to not only non-family members, but she's probably following your footsteps.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Yeah. She definitely loves medicine. I can't say that she loves surgery. I think because probably watching me and how hard I work and everything that I've gone through to get here. She understands its hard work. You have to love it. You have to really want it. You have to be hungry for it. And I think she has decided that she will stick to just medicine.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

Yeah, sure. And there's nothing wrong with that because at the end of the day, as you alluded to initially, we’re physicians first. And I think, especially at a place like the Cleveland Clinic where we value good patient care. When you look at, when I look at some of the subspecialists, whether it's our cardiology or interventional cardiology colleagues and when we're talking to them about what appears to be a mundane medical issue and how they really latch onto the most exquisite detail. And we as vascular surgeons, we care for, there's a huge medical component of what we do in caring for patients. Fifty percent of patients in any of our respective practices are medically managed. We don't operate on everyone. And so I think that's just inherent in our specialty that we have to embrace and we need to embrace holistic care of the patient.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

I'm excited and proud that's something that you came to the program with. We didn't actually imbibe you with that. You came to the program with that. I appreciate you taking the time to share with us. Maybe one more question that I have for you. And then we can wrap up. If you're thinking about young women that are potentially in college, since that's your demographic, what would you say to them is a compelling reason to enter medicine and maybe a compelling reason to end up as a surgeon, they have this campaign, you look like a cardiologist and you look like a vascular surgeon. What would you say to them are the qualities?

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Being a woman in medicine and in surgery is a little bit of an uphill battle, but it really is significantly better than it used to be with programs really trying to recruit women right now. I think if it's something that you're interested in, you should go for it because right now women are a hot commodity. Programs are really looking for people like us to come and change the face of medicine and what it used to look like and what it used to be and what it used to represent. I think to all the women out there that, whether you're in medical school or college or even high school, whether it be medicine or not, I think if you want to do it, go for it, work hard for it.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

And just never stop because, I was going to find a way to get here to be a surgeon because eventually, I realized I wanted to be a surgeon. I was going to find out how to get here no matter what. I think no matter what you're pursuing, you should just keep fighting for it and keep trying to get there. Even if people turn you down, look for another path, because there are so many ways to get to the final destination. That is something that I learned through medical school. Whether you take time off or not, you will get there. It does not matter if you want it.

Lee Kirksey, MD:

Those are great words to conclude on. Clearly, you have, I think physicians, it's a calling, it's a passion for us and clearly you represent that. And so I appreciate you taking the time out and thank you for your attention to those viewers and listeners of our session today. Thank you so much.

D’Andre Williams, MD:

Thank you.

Announcer:

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