Brainstormers: Inspiring Tomorrow's Neurosurgeons

Podcast Transcript

Dr. James K. Stoller:

Hello and welcome to MedEd Thread, a Cleveland Clinic Education Institute podcast that explores the latest innovations in medical education and amplifies the tremendous work of our educators across the enterprise.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Hello. Welcome to today's episode of MedEd Thread, an Education Institute podcast exploring BrainStormers, an innovative program to inspire interest in neurosciences among high school students. I'm your host, Dr. Tony Tizzano, director of student/learner health here at Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio. Today I'm very pleased to have Dr. Akshay Sharma, a sixth-year neurosurgery resident, soon to be chief resident of neurosurgery at Cleveland Clinic. Akshay, welcome. Also joining us is Derrick Obiri-Yeboah, a recent grad from the Lerner College of Medicine and soon to be resident at Mayo Clinic in neurosurgery. Congratulations and welcome.

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Thank you.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Akshay and Derrick, to get started would you each please tell us a little bit about yourselves, your educational background, what brought you to Cleveland, and your roles here at Cleveland Clinic?

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

Sure. Yeah. I can get started. I'm, uh, Akshay Sharma. I originally grew up in Orange County, California. I spent my undergraduate years at Harvard College in Cambridge and then made my way over to Case Western Reserve University. During my medical school years, I fell in love with neurosurgery I think in large part to probably one of the most robust neurosurgical communities in the country, therefore very strong and historical departments here in the city and I found mentors in pretty much all of them, and eventually was lucky enough to match here at Cleveland Clinic in neurosurgery in 2018. I founded BrainStormers during my third year of residency after, you know, feeling pretty connected to the Cleveland community during medical school, feeling like you... I had made a, a second home here in Cleveland and volunteering out in the community and then spending three years kind of in the trenches of the hospital, if that's an appropriate metaphor (laughs), but really just focused on patient care and, you know, walking basically the, you know, half mile back fr... you know, from my house to the hospital and back to my house. My world got very small.

2020, the COVID pandemic hit and the world got even smaller and I just started to feel this gnawing sensation that I didn't feel connected to the, to the neighborhood around me, to the place around me. And, you know, Cleveland Clinic is this global monument of medicine and, you know, the stark reality is that it sits probably in the poorest neighborhoods of Cleveland, and really it just kind of accelerated that feeling or I guess it emphasized that feeling of disconnection, and so I reached at that time to actually my city councilman, Blaine Griffin, in Fairfax and asked him, you know, "H- how can I get involved? I'm a resident. I don't have a lot of treasure, I don't have a lot of talent, but I've got some time. I'm learning about neurosurgery. Can I get some young people excited?"

And he told me to head over to John Hay High School at Cleveland School of Science and Medicine. His sons had gone there and he thought that would be a great place where I could maybe talk to some students. I approached the faculty there and was connected with Manuel Mendoza, the chair of the science department and biology teacher, and he was just a huge advocate for getting me in there, getting students excited about us talking. At that time, it was still March of 2021 so we were still virtual, so we were just doing Zoom sessions with the kids, but we were getting 15 to 20 kids on Zoom talking about neurosurgery, what, what does it mean to be a resident, you know, what does it mean to be a doctor, do you even get paid to be a resident, when do you actually start getting paid money after all this medical training? And, you know, the kids just... they just responded. They started eating it up and asking questions, really intelligent and thoughtful questions. And so that's where the program started and then it just built from there, and then we went in person.

Dr. Tony Tizzano: 

Yeah. 

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

Yeah.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

I- it's fabulous. And Akshay you say this, that you've had time on your hands, and so I think all of us recognize as a resident, whatever the field of concentration, you are anything but, you know, have free time-

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

(laughs).

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

... so I have to hand it to you. This is, this is a personal thing. You'd carve out time because you love this, and I'm very impressed. Derrick, how about you?

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having us, uh, Dr. Tizzano. Yeah, so my name is Derrick Obiri-Yeboah, like you said. Originally my Ghana, so I was born and raised. I moved to the US in 2015 after going to high school, an all-boys high school, uh, back home. I went to a small liberal arts college, Hope College, out in West Michigan, Holland, Michigan. Took a chance on me, I always credit them for that, and gave me a scholarship to come study chemistry there, so I went there. I stayed, uh, f-... there for four years studying chemistry, and then I moved to Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine where I've been for the past five years.

So, you know, I got involved in BrainStormers really through Dr. Schlenk, the current program director at Cleveland Clinic. I met with him, uh, towards the end of my third year, heading into my research year, asking, you know, "How could I get involved, you know, with the department and the community?" And, you know, he knew that I had interest in, you know, giving back to community and recommended I talk to Dr. Sharma, who was then, like, a researcher, about his work that he was doing with the BrainStormers [inaudible 00:05:21] high school. So I reached to him, learned a little bit about the program and said, "If I could help..." And, you know, thankfully he welcomed me and, uh, I've been working with them since then.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

That's fabulous. I, I love the social awareness that both of you exude. I mean, it's, it's virtually palpable. So give us your perspective, Derrick. When you look at the impetus for this program and its importance, what's your thoughts?

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

No, I think it's... you know, is vital. I, I truly believe that, you know, it can be what you, you, you don't see. I had the privilege of meeting one Dr. Paul when I was back in college, the first Black neurosurgeon that I'd ever met. You know, I think prior to that when I was back in Ghana, I'd come across Gifted Hands by Dr. Ben Carson and I thought it was such a cool, like, story, but in a lot of ways he felt like, you know, a bigger than life character. It felt like a pipe dream of, you know, being a neurosurgeon all the way from Kumasi, and, I mean, I'd never seen one before. I don't even think there was one in the city that I grew up in, so when I came to college and then I saw Dr. Paul who looked like me, went to the same college that I went to, studied chemistry as me, it felt a little bit more palpable like, "Oh, perhaps I could do it too."

You know, I think for me that, that was my impetus in joining the BrainStormers program 'cause if I could go back to these underrepresented students, you know, historically disadvantaged, who 100% below the poverty line, I showed them that somebody from the same community could end up at medical school and now chasing the dream of being a neurosurgeon, I think... I'd hope that it would strike a chord, and I think the feedback that I've received so far from working with students, I think that's what we're achieving.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Sparking interest is such a critical step in mentorship and for, for individuals who may never see themselves or have an acquaintance that even shines a light on what it is, so good for you. So who is this target audience, Derrick?

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Yeah. Thus far, we've been working with the John Hay H- High School at the Cleveland School of Science and Medicine, you know, targeting high school students, I think all grades between ninth and twelfth grade are welcome, you know, any- anybody interested in science and medicine. We really... We're pretty open 'cause we usually have guests too, not just, uh, surgeons. We have other physicians like neurologists, we have, like, lab technicians, you know, surgical technicians, even bioethicists who come talk to them, so I think any student open to learn more about higher education is our current target audience. And Akshay, you can add to that.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Akshay, did you want to add?

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

Yeah. I think that was, uh, exactly right. I think we idealistically would keep it as open as possible, any student who's interested in what we have to say and wants to get excited about neuroscience or medicine and just wants to have a good time and, and, and get some mentorship. That would be great. I think the Cleveland School of Science and Medicine in particular has been an incredible building ground for this program just because the students are at baseline highly intelligent. It's a magnet school, but... And they're all interested in becoming the next generation of healthcare leaders. They all wanna go into medicine and science, so we're very lucky to have an attentive audience there, but really anybody, and, as we kinda build the program out, you know, our target is students who lack exposure to the medical field that we can provide that bridge for, but, you know, even if they've got, you know, doctor parents or doctor brothers and sisters or whatever it is, we want them in the program as well.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Sure. Well, you know, I mean, when you look at Cleveland Clinic as a whole, I mean, it's virtually a city with so many different venues to, to work in, and getting your foot through the door in whatever capacity can take on a path you... a trajectory you just don't know.

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

You just don't know.

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Yeah, I agree with that. I think I just wanna also, you know, acknowledge the leadership, especially at the neurosurgery department, like, uh, Dr. Sharma said, you know, he had the support of the program director, Dr. Schlenk and Dr. Steinmetz, who is the chairman. I was in clinic with him on Wednesday, but every Wednesday afternoon when I have BrainStormers he'll let me out of clinic early so I could go and I don't take that for granted at all. And also, like, the Lerner College of Medicine leadership, like, having the [inaudible 00:09:24] allowed us the... me the flexibility to get involved in such a program, and also, you know, Dr. Stoller, the Education Institute for supporting our work with a grant [inaudible 00:09:33] everybody has really been helpful in driving this forward.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Very good. Akshay, let's talk a little bit about the funding. So where does the money come from for this kind of program, which I imagine adds up? You do a lot of things.

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

It does. If you wanna do something, you need some financial support and that's just the reality. We've been very lucky in that we've had a couple of philanthropic supporters actually all from within Cleveland Clinic, [inaudible 00:09:59] couple national and mostly from the Cleveland Clinic. So we were lucky enough initially to have received the Michener Award from the Alumni Association followed by a Catalyst grant, an Education Institute grant, as well as the recently inaugurated Alfred and Norma Stoller Award as well. We've also gotten some support from Alpha Omega Alpha National Society as well for, you know, medical education, and so we've raised close to $50,000, maybe a little more, to support the program. Most of that funding has gone into just building the infrastructure, simple things, website, you know, logo design, you know, picking up T-shirts and prizes for kids and storage facilities so that we can put all of our supplies and teaching equipment, and then, you know, nice anatomical models and, and, uh, you know, teaching aides that, that, you know, we can use for the students. And what's been nice is that, you know, all of that is going to last, and that's basically secured kind of the operational endeavor of the program going forward. 

I think probably what's been the largest portion that the funding has been allocated to would be the internship programs that we've developed, you know, initially trying to figure out n- new ways to revitalize some of the curriculum that we'd come up with. We'd made a bunch of blank PowerPoints essentially and really this probably isn't that exciting for the students, and we decided to try to hire a graphic designer, an artist, and we approached all sorts of professionals across Cleveland, couldn't anybody who would get back to us, and then the teachers at John Hay were like, "Wait, why, why... We have talented students here. Why don't you just use some of our students and, you know, you can... they can do an internship?"

And so we decided to, you know, throw some funding into there so that they didn't have to choose an internship over, like, a job and we've been able to support three interns a year who help us artistically, they create drawings, animations, they designed our website to help us teach neuroscientific topics to students, so the concepts get digested through Derrick. Derrick teaches them to the students, the students generate them into art. It's actually really exciting to watch some of the students recite the symptoms of raised intercranial pressure better than, you know, a neurosurgical resident can, but that's because they've done this, you know, kind of intensive flipped classroom, you know, we talk about all these things and, you know, we lived it in real life, and then see that translate that into a teaching tool for other students as well. So that's kind of where looking to the future of the program as we look for funding, that's probably where the funding is gonna go is sustaining that internship and that direct model. It was kind of an unforeseen portion of the program, but that we were able to really engage a small group of students in a way we never thought was possible or really imagined.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

I think it's wonderful that you let it evolve. You let it take it take on its own direction. You know, listening to both of you speak I get the sense that you've maybe developed a bit of a plug-and-play model. Is this something that you could see easily emulated by other schools that had interest and attached to whatever kind of medical facility that would be willing to, to shepherd it along for either of you?

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Well, I think we are working on getting this recognized at a national level from an organized neurosurgery standpoint so that people can take what we've, you know, worked on and they can find maybe a little bit of funding just to, you know, purchase some anatomical models or something, really not too much. They could do this at a local high school or a couple local high schools with, you know, some free residents or medical students. Yeah.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah. And I wonder if even starting early... I think it's great that you're... I love the fact that it's not just college students or premed but that you're in the high school, and I wonder with an age-appropriate design if you might not even consider elementary school? Maybe not neuroscience, but it could be. I mean, everyone knows someone affected by the kind of work that you do. What do you think, Derrick? Do you think you could roll this out earlier and earlier in a different form?

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Absolutely, yeah. I think that's one of the feedback that the current medical students looking to join the program have actually given in terms of, like, how could we distill it even down further to, like, a middle school target audience, so I think that would excellent to try and, you know, branch out. Just given the, the immense success of the current BrainStormer program, I think that would do very well too and, you know, especially now that we have some early-on medical students, year one, year two, joining who are more into the basic sciences that we may have forgotten, they could help distill it even further for middle school audience.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah. I think you plant that seed early before students have a sense of what they can't do you know, and then all of a sudden it may be smoldering in the background, but it just needs you to come along and fan the flame just a bit.

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

I wanted to add another thing, uh, to what Dr. Sharma had said about replicating this at other sites. I think one other avenue that we're looking into is also trying to publish, like, our current results to see, you know, if we could publish our curriculum, uh, people can take it and run with it however best they see fit and also to drive and share, you know, our knowledge with the rest of the neuroscience community and medical community as a whole.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Boy. Great work, great work. Akshay, you know, I understand that you mentioned before that students actually participated in developing the website, they developed artwork, and the teachers helped you reach out to this. I mean, I've got to see some of the things on your website. It's pretty impressive, and, you know, I have to think that really engages them at a different level to say, "This isn't something that someone's just coming to set before me, but I'm a part of making this a success." That's a pretty interesting accomplishment. Is that fueling itself now?

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

Yeah. We'll start with the students themselves. I think all three of them that we... We engaged them actually over two years, so all three of them are incredibly driven at baseline, but, you know, to see them succeed... I think Alex has a, you know, full ride to Case Western, Taylor is a budding young doctor but has already secured a couple of other artistic internships, and to be able to see her just, like, feel good about what she's produced and to see that we love it and that somebody else might love it and to give her the confidence that she can maybe do this a career, I mean, I think that's incredibly rewarding if, if that's what you're kind of asking. Yeah. I mean- 

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Exactly. And once you identify these individuals that have this kind of enthusiasm, how do you go about connecting them to an opportunity, research or mentorship, scholarship opportunities? How do you pick and choose?

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

So the biggest thing is actually getting them plugged in here at Cleveland Clinic. We have an amazing Center for Youth and College Education just plump with resources for young, bright students who are looking to get into medicine, so just getting them connected here is incredible because, you know, we can get them connected with not only doctors here, but nursing staff, medical arts, medical administration, program coordinators, purchasing folks, the business side of medicine, and, you know, we can kind of get them into that and then they also are connected to a vast amount of community resources as well. 

The biggest thing for us probably is kinda helping them filter through a lot of the opportunities that they have, so they might come and say, "Hey, I got this opportunity to do this summer program in, you know, XYZ institution, but I also have this other internship. Which one do you think I should do? Or I'm applying for this. Do you think you could give me some advice on some, some stuff to look at, et cetera?" I think that's probably our biggest value. For the artistic internship, we're not artists. We don't pretend to be artists or in any way, you know, connected in that sense, so we are looking for ways to really help our young art interns develop that side. We can teach them the neuroscience and watch them create these incredible works. It is hard for us to help them develop those besides, you know, maybe purchasing a- an app for them to, to do... You know, like, a design app on an iPad or something like that.

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

But-

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So there's a few. Go ahead, Derrick.

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Yeah, but one of the ways that, you know, Dr. Sharma and I have thought about expanding this is reaching out to the Cleveland Institute of Art, trying to see who... actual art experts, you know, who can come and mentor the students and connecting them. Like, somebody like [inaudible 00:18:16] and Taylor, they're exceptionally talented artists, see if we can connect them to a professional, you know, in a... sort of a paid internship point-

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Mm-hmm.

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

... so they can learn from them and get some feedback from them too. So that's another avenue that we're hoping to go in the next coming years.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah. They have a program on anatomical illustrations, so-

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Yeah.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

... I mean, there's a lot of commonality. You know, you mentioned the Center for Youth and College Education sightsee, we like to call it. You know, that is something worth mentioning because, you know, under Dr. Mike Nelson's direction and the most fabulous team... I mean, this is a really engaged team that has leveled the playing field for individuals who might have an interest in coming to Cleveland Clinic and having some kind of experience where it used to be that you had to know one of the two of you to get here, but now there's a process that virtually anybody can look at and apply for some of these programs, and, I mean, it's a shameless plug, but it's well-deserved. So Derrick, when we look at these students and they're coming... You said 100% of them are at the poverty line or below. You know, what are the kinds of tools that you help give them to help speed the way to something new and, and great for them?

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

I think much like Dr. Sharma has already alluded, you know, the first thing is the confidence and seeing as v- viable career options. I think once we're able to instill that in them by bringing in, you know, faculties or staff from different fields who may look li- like them or l-... you know, have similar backgrounds as them, it really helps, you know, open their eyes and open their minds to the world of possibilities, but also, you know, beyond that also gi-... equipping them with the language. You know, for example, we... one of our sessions was on, uh, stroke and we're talking about, like, you know, it's very common in the elderly and what are the... some of the symptoms to look out for, you know, how could they reach out to the nearest healthcare facility, like when they call 911, how could they describe some of the symptoms. 

And it's very rewarding to see them, you know, recite to us all the symptoms of a possible stroke, uh, how they can reach out to the nearest facility, and, like, you know, what they need to do all the way, the information they need to give 'cause I think once... We don't pretend like we're gonna make them physicians, but we're helping them have some of the language 'cause most of these kids are the first in their family to go to college, first generation maybe to get their GED or graduate from high school, so having that language helps equip them, also builds their confidence to feel a little bit useful when they go back to their abuela, to their abuelo, to their, you know, their grandma, to, you know, feel, like, i- included and useful.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah. Very good. Did you want to add?

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

Yeah. I- I'd just, you know, [inaudible 00:20:49] 100% of the kids are below the, you know, below or at the poverty line, 100% of them are going to college. Their college acceptance rate is 100% I think, so these are incredibly motivated kids.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

That is astonishing.

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

Yeah. It's wonderful.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

That is amazing.

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

Yeah. It's an incredible place, and I, I would just say that, you know, w-... I think our... what I see as our biggest value there is, is really just to, you know, be the bridge, to show them that it's possible and tell them about it. That's the unfortunate truth about medicine is unless you're really thinking about it, what you wanna do, it- it's hard to know the possibility and it's, it's easy to get kind of, you know, not stuck, you know, medicines always rewarding, but, you know, you... that you could follow one path and kind of just keep going there, you know, for the rest of your life, but the, the possibility of medicine is probably the most beautiful thing about it and if you learn about that early, I think that really leads to a rewarding career. And I'm literally at the beginning of my career, Derrick hasn't even started his career, but I, I think we definitely come to work just happy and, and feeling, like, rejuvenated, you know, because of programs like this but also just because I think somebody showed us that early on that, you know, there's so much to this career.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah. It comes through loud and clear. So you have an interested student or they've heard about you. How do they get to you? How do they get started?

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

They just have to come to a session. We do once a month and on a Wednesday afternoon, 3:30 to 5:30, completely voluntary, no mandatory sessions or anything like that. They wanna stay and they can and they have a ride... You know, sometimes we can provide... We have some funding in our grant funding for, like, an Uber home or something, but they just have to come.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

And how long are the sessions?

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Yeah, like, you know, Dr. Sharma said, usually from 3:30 to 5:30. I... You know, the first half hour is usually reviewing some slides and the rest of the time is just a hands-on session for the students to, to get, you know, get familiar with the tools, that we usually bring tools and technicians to help us set up so they can play with the toys, you know, and get some hands-on f- feedback and understanding of the material.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So there's some rolling participation, you don't start with a cohort and you finish a cohort. These students may come and go.

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Exactly.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

So you've really taken down almost all the barriers-

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

... f- for someone to come, which is such a key step. So, you know, Dr. Stoller always likes to say if you had a magic wand, so what lies on the the horizon? If you could have whatever you wanted, what would you ask for, Derrick, we'll start with you, in this endeavor, BrainStormers, to take it to the next level?

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

I think if we could, you know, sustain the funding to help relieve some of the pressure from, you know, Dr. Sharma and, uh, the current residents by hiring a little bit more interns so that they can have some paid internship and also to collaborate with the Cleveland Institute of Art to explore that aspect as well, but also to expand to other high schools and perhaps middle schools in the community so that we can, you know, keep spreading the word and keep engaging the youth, which is vitally important in this community.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Akshay, what would you have to say?

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

I would love to see the program grow as much as possible. You know, I think if we could get into every high school in the Cleveland Metropolitan School District, that would be wonderful, just try to get the word out to as many kids as possible, but to be quite honest, you know, I, I, I think for me personally this is hugely rewarding as it is-

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah.

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

... uh, whether we have, you know, 20, 30 students at a, at a session or, you know, at o- one of our recent sessions we had, like, five or six and we had a small little group discussion, we were just talking. I'm always a little stressed before a session 'cause we're, you know, gathering all these things and every time I walk out of there, I'm just like, "Gosh, I'm so glad I came and just so happy to be here." So, you know, u- uh, uh.

Dr. Tizzano:

That's outstanding.

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

So I think yeah, I think I think that...

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah. We just have to keep cloning the two of you-

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

(laughs).

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

... and I think the success will come. So did I miss anything? Are there some innovations or questions that I didn't ask that you think the audience should know about?

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

One that I wanted to add to, you know, the opportunity through sightsees, the opportunity for these students to come to hospital and shadow the physicians, you know, we've had students in the past come do a summer internship with the bioethics department doing research or come to clinic with us, come observe, shadow in the OR. Actually, that's an opportunity that we make available to all students. Like you said, we're trying to take down the barrier of, like, coming to X number of sessions. You can come as you go 'cause one of the barriers that we recognize in these population is, you know, the socioeconomic difficulties, things going on in their family that prevent them from coming to, you know, this month's session but they might be able to come next month because they have a ride back or, you know, mom is in town, so we try not to, you know, be too stringent about that by making a- available to everyone who's interested.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Yeah, and you bring up a good point. I think getting them into the hospital, especially a hospital the size of which Cleveland Clinic is, I know for me if I had looked at residency programs I would've looked at Cleveland Clinic and thought, "No way (laughs). It's too big. It's, you know, it's such an ivory tower." I, I would've had a fear, but when you get here you realize there's a familial part of the culture here that wraps its arm around trainees and students-

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

Absolutely.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

... that I think it would not take students long, even shadowers, to get a sense of, "They look at me as important, that I could be another piece of the pipeline that gets me here." But you don't notice that until you're on the ground, otherwise you're looking at glass and steel and thinking, "Boy, do I belong at a place like that?" And that's the great thing that, you know, you have in some ways flattened the hierarchy which is such a key thing for education, to not look at, "Some people are on a pedestal and I'm way down here," but that you can have interchange. And I think you've done a marvelous job. Any other thoughts?

Derrick Obiri-Yeboah:

I just wanted to echo what you said about the flatten the hierarchy. I think that's something that comes from our superiors, like Dr. Mihaljevic, Dr. Steinmetz, Dr. Schlenk. I think they make that very clear. Like, one thing they tell us in medical school the first day, they give us a long white cord and then they say, "You are our colleagues." And I think it's truly felt. Uh, you know, we just had our graduation, and that sentiment has stayed all these past five years, but also from the high school point of view, Principal Perez, Mr. Mendoza, they've really been welcoming and I don't think any of this would've been possible without their tremendous support, so I wanted to give them our sincerest thanks as well as the leadership here.

Dr. Akshay Sharma:

I think getting the students back into the hospital or back with us is the most important part of the program. We can dazzle them as much as we can try in the classroom, but unless we create those long-lasting mentorship relationships... You know, that's what's gonna make the difference in these students' lives, having somebody be the long-term mentor, and we're working on that so, you know, we're always looking for creative partnerships between, you know, our department, other neuroscience departments, but even outside of neuroscience anywhere in the hospital we can get them, we would love to have students come back with us so we can facilitate, you know, getting them onboarded, being their advocates, and then we can kind of, you know, make that bridge and let that relationship develop.

Dr. Tony Tizzano:

Fabulous. So BrainStormer's clearly a model for the future. Well, I wanna thank both of you so much. This has been an intriguing and enlightening episode of MedEd Thread. To our listeners, thank you very much for joining and we look forward to seeing you on our next podcast. Have a wonderful day.

Dr. James K. Stoller:

This concludes this episode of MedEd Thread, a Cleveland Clinic Education Institute podcast. Be sure to subscribe to hear new episodes via iTunes, Google Play, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, thanks for listening to MedEd Thread and please join us again soon.