What Time Is the Right Time to Eat with Julia Zumpano, RD

Podcast Transcript

John Horton:

Hello, and welcome to another Health Essentials podcast. I'm John Horton, your host. Three meals a day, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, has served as our classic eating schedule for hundreds of years. The times, however, are a-changin', and the times when people sit down to eat seem to be changing with it. So now the big question, is that a good thing?

Today we're going to chat about how the timing of meals and snacks can affect your weight and daily energy levels. Joining us is registered dietitian, Julia Zumpano, our go-to source when it comes to food and nutrition. She is one of the many experts at Cleveland Clinic who visit our weekly podcast to offer insights into healthier living. Now let's see what we can do about setting up an eating schedule that keeps us both happy and healthy. Julia, thanks so much for coming in to talk shop today.

Julia Zumpano:

Thank you so much for having me.

John Horton:

So eating is one of those things that we all have to do every day, but fitting meals into increasingly hectic schedules just seems to be getting harder for everyone. Am I imagining the degree of difficulty going up when it comes to sitting down at the kitchen table?

Julia Zumpano:

No, I certainly agree with you. I think our schedules are becoming overly packed, and after-school activities or after-work activities are really taking over the dinner hour or span of time where you can get dinner in at a reasonable time. And it's leaving us as Americans scrambling for what to eat and what we can grab quickly and on the go, and I think is leading to some disordered eating patterns in general.

John Horton:

Well, we're going to try to get things all straightened out here today, which is why we asked you to come join us. So let's start with this whole notion of eating three square meals a day. Where did that come from, and is it effective when it comes to fueling our bodies?

Julia Zumpano:

So the three meals a day actually originated back during the Industrial Revolution of the 19th century, where there was normalization of work hours. So really, it started with a pre-work meal, a mid-work shift snack or lighter meal, and then, of course, when you get home from a hard day at work, you have dinner. So that's where it originated. Back before then, most of the time we were eating one meal a day, so it really has evolved into three meals, and in some cases now, six.

John Horton:

Well, I was going to say, it is still evolving. And I guess, in looking at that traditional schedule, let's talk optimal eating times. And since breakfast is the first meal, and often called the most important, let's start there.

Julia Zumpano:

So the way I approach nutrition may be a little bit different than most traditional dietitians. I really like to look at personalized approaches. So I don't know if there's a specific best eating time for everyone to follow. I think everyone might need to follow what their best eating time is. For instance, I think sometimes intermittent fasting or restricting the time you eat works great for some people. If you're on certain medications or you're a diabetic or you suffer from low blood sugars, then you really do need to eat a little bit more regularly.

So generally, if you are a breakfast eater and this is something you enjoy, I recommend eating breakfast within the first hour to hour and a half of when you wake up. And I really do encourage more of a protein-based breakfast. So protein and fiber, trying to limit or avoid sugars because sugars can certainly lead to spiked blood sugar values, which then can lead to plummeting blood sugar values, and leave your blood sugar low and kind of searching for more sugar. And again, energy. It drops your energy level.

John Horton:

So when you're talking proteins, I take it you're talking the eggs and maybe sausages or some meat, something like that to get you going at the start of the day?

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. I'm a fan of eggs, egg whites, depending on how many eggs you're consuming throughout the week. A turkey sausage or chicken sausage is great. I love a simple cottage cheese or Greek yogurt for breakfast. I think they're great sources. I also like even some scrambled tofu for breakfast. There's a lot of great choices. A protein shake or a protein smoothie is another quick, easy breakfast on the go.

I do encourage fiber with that. So if you're going to have eggs, maybe throwing some greens in there. If you're going to have cottage cheese or Greek yogurt, having some berries and nuts with it. If you're going to have a smoothie, making sure there's protein, and then fiber in the form of a fruit or vegetable, maybe even some flax seeds or chia seeds. So there's a lot of range of possibilities.

John Horton:

All right. Well, everything you just said should keep us filled up until lunch, which I know usually falls around noon. Are there any secrets involving the timing of lunch, or how much we should be putting in that lunch sack?

Julia Zumpano:

So generally, I like to space meals between four to six hours apart. Same type of theme as we had for breakfast, is keeping protein and fiber really present in the meals, and specifically for lunch because most times we can experience this drop in energy around 2:00 or 3:00, and that generally comes again about two hours after your main meal. And if your meal is too high in carbohydrates or maybe even too high in fat, that can leave you feeling pretty sluggish. So we want to try to keep your meals a little bit lighter, more heavy in protein and fiber, and really focusing on the foundation of what's in the meal versus being overly concerned about the timing.

John Horton:

Well, you mentioned that downturn that we all feel, like around 2:00, 3:00. And that does seem to be the prime snacking time too. What's the best approach for when you want to have that nibble in between meals?

Julia Zumpano:

So I do think snacking can be fit in to a day, although I really caution with snacking, because oftentimes snacking leads to high amounts of snack foods and consuming quick, easy foods, which tend to be snack-y foods or processed foods. If you are going to snack, I really encourage a whole food, like a piece of fruit, some vegetables, some nuts, something pretty light.

But I also do try to encourage my patients to consider and really think about if they're really hungry. So are we snacking out of hunger? Are we snacking out of boredom? Are we because we're low energy or we want a distraction from work or what we're doing? So if you prepare your meals in the right macronutrient content and really filling them with protein and fiber, like I said, you should be able to last between four to six hours between meals, where you may not need a snack.

Now that doesn't mean snacking is bad for you, but I would really keep in mind your hunger cues. Are you truly hungry? And if you truly are hungry, your stomach's rumbling, you maybe had too light of a meal for lunch or breakfast, then I do encourage a snack, and a whole food-based snack. But snacking can get us into trouble oftentimes, if we're not mindful of our decisions.

John Horton:

Well, that's definitely true. And I know that from personal experience. I tend to be a little bit of a snack monster in the middle of the afternoon. But let's say I did the lunch thing right, and it's carried me all the way through to dinner. That seems to be a meal where people are all over the place as far as when they sit down to eat. What are the pros and cons of an early or a late dinner?

Julia Zumpano:

So an earlier dinner, I'm more of a fan of because it gives you a good amount of time to digest your food after dinner and allows your blood sugar to properly rise and fall after dinner, so you're not going to bed with a full belly or this skyrocketed blood sugar. So I'm really a fan of earlier dinners, or at least three hours before bedtime is my ideal recommendation.

If a later dinner is something you have to do and just life gets busy, I don't think you should be overly concerned with it. I think you should just make better choices. And try, even if that's part of your lifestyle, to make dinner maybe a lighter meal and your smaller meal. And if you know that you're just consistently going to eat later dinners, then maybe making your lunch a little more of a heavier meal and your larger meal that can carry you over through dinner, so you're not overconsuming calories, especially if there's a big span of time between lunch and dinner, or at least you're having a nice, good substantial snack in between if you're going, again, greater than six hours between meals.

So like I said, I think that you can make any time work. It's all about your choices and your portions.

John Horton:

Okay. If you do go with that later dinner, I know you had mentioned three hours in between dinner and bedtime, to try to set it that way. If you eat a little bit later, are there some things you can do to maybe help speed up digestion a little bit or help that process along?

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. Certainly moving around is going to help. So if you're eating dinner and going straight and laying down in bed, even if you're bed for two hours, that's going to certainly slow down the digestion process. So if you can take a short walk, maybe a 20-minute walk, or you can even just stay standing. Maybe you organize a closet or clean the kitchen, or whatever you can do to kind of keep your body upright. And any moderate amount of movement is going to really help with digestion and burning your blood sugar, and then just helping you digest that food better too.

John Horton:

Well, our focus here has been on that traditional three meal eating pattern. But as you mentioned earlier, there are numerous approaches that people take. And I know one of the more interesting ones that seems to be gaining in popularity is time-restricted eating. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. I'm a fan of time-restricted eating. I think for the proper individual, it can work really well. Time-restricted eating is when you choose to restrict your eating into a shortened time window. It can range anywhere between 8 to 12 hours of an eating window, therefore you would be fasting between 12 to 16 hours. And typically, that fast occurs overnight. The benefits there, there's been a lot of proven health benefits. Gut health, decreasing insulin, increasing concentration, increasing memory and alertness, helps with digestion. So there have been a lot of benefits for those people who really can gain benefits. I mean, it's not right for everyone, but I think it's worth a try.

John Horton:

Now in that, when you do that time-restricted eating, do you still just try to set meals up? I mean, I have two college-age sons. And to be honest, I think they could actually eat for eight hours straight. So I just want to make sure they don't go that road.

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. I mean, I think it depends on the person and what window you're choosing. Certainly, a 10 or 12-hour fasting window would place this into a normal eating habit. Starting breakfast at 8:00 AM and cutting off around 6:00 PM would be a normal 10-hour eating window. If you're shortening it a little bit tighter, like an eight-hour, you may choose to have two meals and more of a substantial, heavier snack in between. For those who might be eating a later dinner, this could maybe work well for you. If you're having a later breakfast, a mid-afternoon substantial snack, and then your later typical dinner, or you could switch it around. I think it just allows for a lot of opportunity and flexibility.

John Horton:

Yeah. You can add a little variety into the day. And it sounds like just eat within that window and make it work.

Julia Zumpano:

I think the key is really what you eat. So making sure you're choosing healthy food choices, whether it's a meal or a snack.

John Horton:

Wonderful answer there. All right. So Julia, now we're going to do something a little different. Ahead of this podcast, we asked folks on Cleveland Clinic's social media channels if they had diet-related questions, and they certainly did. So let's get them a few answers. So one of our social media followers said they heard that it's better to skip dinner entirely and just wait to eat again until breakfast. Is there any sort of truth to that concept?

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah. So that kind of comes back to the concept we were just discussing with the time-restricted eating. I do think that some people do benefit from eating heavier in the morning, and then basing your eight-hour window from breakfast, counting eight hours, and having your last meal maybe be later in the afternoon, and then skipping dinner. I think that can work very well for some people, specifically those who may suffer from sleep disruption or digestive issues or even elevated blood sugar, elevated insulin. I think that type of eating schedule can really work for some people.

John Horton:

All right. Well, now someone on Instagram asked the age-old question, to snack or not to snack, because they said once they start snacking it just turns into a lot of eating. What kind of tips do you have to slow that down?

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah, I agree. As I mentioned, I'm not a huge fan of snacking unless you're truly hungry. I really like to focus on what your meals are. Take a look at the meal. Really, what are you eating? Are you consuming enough protein? Are you consuming enough fiber? Because typically, you're not. And that's what's leading you to needing to snack or overeat later in the afternoon.

So if we really start the day off and focus on protein and fiber with all of our meals, we should feel so full that we don't need to snack. If we're eating more processed junky foods, snack-y foods for our meals, starting off with a pastry, eating a peanut butter and jelly for lunch, we're certainly going to be left still hungry. And that's going to be throwing off our blood sugars all over the place, and that's going to lead us to be craving those carbohydrates or fatty foods. A lot of snack foods are designed to be overeaten. They are made that way. So once we start, we're going to have trouble stopping. So it really comes down to the foundation of what you're eating at meal times.

John Horton:

Well, and I know you had mentioned too, when it comes to snacking, people do tend to grab that really processed foods, the junk food that's usually sitting around. I take it if you are somebody who tends to get that little ... You want to nibble in the middle of the afternoon, you should probably then try to have just some good, healthy food around.

Julia Zumpano:

Yeah, absolutely. I actually recommend veggie trays a lot with my busy patients. Even in the office, buying a veggie tray to have all week. And at that 2:00, 3:00 drop in energy, boredom, desire to snack time, you can just go grab some raw veggies. A lot of people crave that crunchiness, something that they can get their hands and mouth involved in eating. So liquids don't necessarily cut it. But an apple with some peanut butter, some veggies, something really whole food-based, high fiber, adding some protein to that like a boiled egg or some turkey, some nuts. That might be another great idea.

John Horton:

All right. And finally, another one of our fans wants to know if there's one meal in particular that should always be your largest of the day.

Julia Zumpano:

Well, I'm a fan of having a larger lunch. We know some European countries really focus on that larger lunch, and maybe a lighter dinner. And we know European countries tend to have a lower incidence of disease and obesity when compared to Americans. So I really do like that middle-day larger meal.

Unless you're willing to eat an earlier dinner, then I also think ... As the American culture, we do tend to have bigger dinners. If you'd like to plan family dinners, I'm a huge fan of eating with other people. I think it helps naturally control portions. It helps slow you down. It helps you bring pleasure to meals, and then you can share. So I think there's a lot of great benefits to family meals.

So if you are going to have that larger meal at dinner, even trying to plan it earlier. So I think we get in the trap of ... Well, we can't eat dinner at 4:00. Well, why not? Kids get off the bus, they're starving. You might get off at 5:00, but there's nothing wrong with eating right after work, because then you have your whole night free and you don't have to necessarily be trying to fit it in.

John Horton:

Julia, what really struck me throughout this conversation is that there's no just one right answer. It sounds like you can tailor your meal plan to your own needs, your own body, but you just try to make healthy choices as you're doing it.

Julia Zumpano:

John, you hit the nail on the head. That's exactly my message. It really should be tailored, personalized. Number one thing you want to keep in mind is what you're eating. Are you consuming enough protein and fiber at your meals? And are you snacking on whole foods? And the timing really can vary based on the individual and their schedule.

John Horton:

Well, Julia, I'm pretty sure we could talk eating habits all day. Every time I talk with you, I leave with great information that I know I use in my life. But I know you've got appointments you need to get to, so before we part ways, is there anything else you'd like to add regarding when we choose to eat and what we eat?

Julia Zumpano:

I think it's important to experiment. So I think we talked a lot about different methods and different times of eating. And I think it's important to experiment with what time works best for you. Try out time-restricted eating. If that doesn't work for you, go back to traditional. But like I said, really what you're eating matters way more than the time that you're eating it.

John Horton:

Oh, great answers as always, Julia. I love having you on, and I look forward to our next conversation.

Julia Zumpano:

Thanks so much for having me.

John Horton:

Eating at consistent times throughout the day is important to keep you fueled up and ready to go. Find a schedule that works for you and stick with it. Your body will thank you. Until next time, be well.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for listening to Health Essentials, brought to you by Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland Clinic Children's. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, or visit clevelandclinic.org/HEpodcast. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and is not intended to replace the advice of your own physician.